What happened to "dissent is patriotic"??

Just a question. What is your truth?

Couldn't have said it better myself...you are the voice of reason - well done!

Dear Obnoxious and Zealotous Teacher Hater,

If you'll allow me to whip out my red pen, I'd be happy to "check over your work."

Mechanics:
Sentence two is incomplete. Sentence three is compound, and it is missing punctuation. In actuality, it is what professional teachers call a "run-on" sentence. This sentence also contains a spelling error. Sentence four has a punctuation error, as well.

Content:
You have no evidence for your argument. A simple statement that colors another person's view as "screwed up" is conjecture. Your persuasive argument is weak. Please provide supporting statements.

Final Grade:
D

Are you sure you're qualified to be explaining anything to your children? I certainly hope you aren't teaching them how to write. No one will take your comments seriously if you continue to write nonsense. Please enroll your children in boarding school straight away.

Sincerely,
Fed Up With Teacher Bashing

I have family and friends in the profession, so I do not take blatant teacher-bashing lightly. It is sad that you measure a person's worth by the money that person makes instead of his or her contribution to the proliferation of humanity. Your hateful and materialistic attitude is a cancer in our society. Boarding school will save your spawn from such anti-citizen philosophies as yours. Please consider it for your progeny before it's too late for those innocents.

@Technokat

BLAH>>>>BLAH>>>>BLAH

My kids NOW go to private school just so they don't have to be subjected to unscruplious teachers political views.

Again.....KISS OFF!

I do hope the private school has an anti-bullying program since it's obvious your children are not learning about it from a person who debates by writing, "KISS OFF." Are you sure you don't want to wait until recess to "work your eloquent magic" on me? :-P

Your comments are certainly foolish without any supporting evidence, yet still you will not offer anything of the like. Until then, your rhetoric will never reach the point of real truth. Isn't there a boarding school in Lawrenceville?

Teckie are you and the author really accusing only one side of divisive bullylike attacks? Mike Moore or bill maher come to mind. Obamas revenge comment or war on women? You yourself have called people names. You call Romney mittens. You call republicans the party of no far right zealots. I see by your posts your are very pro union and pro teacher. Do you know what the average compensation package is of teachers or public employees in freehold? Do you know how much mr baker earns in south river? Every time someone invokes not liking obama someone plays the cheesy race card. Not everyone who dislikes his policies is a racist in fact I am black and I don't like him for a whole lot of reasons. Let's agree that people of both sides have said and spewed much hate. How about all the people who call governor Christie fat and other stuff? Are they not bullies too? Your comments are not without attack. By the way agree to disagree is an oxymoron.

How true. Teachers should not be preaching politics or religion. As I have seen many times. How about in 08 when school kids were singing the Obama song? There should some code of conduct to cover this growing problem.

@Technokat

Sorry I can't supply you proof since all my proof is what my kids told me. "Tell your mommy and daddy's they should vote for Obama because, if they don't school funding will be taken away" OR the crap put in our kids school bags begging to vote for whatever democRAT fool was running for a seat on the board. THAT is my proof. CRAP PUT IN THE BAG MY THE TEACHER.

So shut your mouth and stop teaching the children false politics and then I'd have nothing to blog about.

So again>>>>KISS OFF.

Hingle:
I'm not raising children. However Guess who is, and it's obvious this person spews hate messages here. As a citizen, this influence of hate upon a person's own children does not concern you?

"I see by your posts your are very pro union and pro teacher. Do you know what the average compensation package is of teachers or public employees in freehold? Do you know how much mr baker earns in south river?" Is this information germane to the topic of teacher-bashing? Are you actually implying that what a person earns entitles that person to be ridiculed in public for having an opinion?

"How about all the people who call governor Christie fat and other stuff? Are they not bullies too?" They absolutely are. I abhor the same commentary in regard to "fat" comments, and I have also posted as such. It's despicable. You have offered nothing to refute my statements, nor have you called out Guess who for his/her ignorant and offensive comments. Instead you took the time to research "some" of my posts in order to "go after" me. Until you admit that teacher-bashing is offensive, your arguments are without merit.

"Sorry I can't supply you proof since all my proof is what my kids told me." The spoken word is hearsay. However, you know your children would never exaggerate anything, so that must be the proof you need.

" 'Tell your mommy and daddy's they should vote for Obama because, if they don't school funding will be taken away' OR the crap put in our kids school bags begging to vote for whatever democRAT fool was running for a seat on the board. THAT is my proof. CRAP PUT IN THE BAG MY THE TEACHER."
I had no idea that teachers in your children's private school were allowed to teach propaganda like that. You did say they are in private school, right? If what you're saying happened to them in a public school, then perhaps your children are not really enrolled in a private school like you say...or is it that this happened over a different election cycle that did not involve Mitt Romney? No matter, you need to get your story straight to have any credibility here.

Guess who, the actions you are describing are unprofessional, and a smart administration would investigate them. No teacher should tell his/her students to instruct their parents regarding which candidates ought to get their vote. These actions do not describe the whole of the people in the profession, just like your actions to not represent all parents. I know plenty of people with children who do not bash teachers the way you do, and I am confident that you are an anomaly among parents.

Teckno, all people are spewing hate and I respect you for condemning them all. You have posted so not so nice stuff. Me too. We all get emotional. I hope you will call out all in the future. I will.
Mr bakers pay is germane. he is a taxpayer paid employee so of course his bias is for the people who will pay him more and give him more. Where is his objectivity? Does he really believe that gym teachers should be paid same as science? The union does. He seems bright and maybe he is a good one. let's reward him if he produces and take it from someone who fails. Is he or you ok with that?
To all you name callers on both sides, it doesn't change anything. Yes Christie is fat and Obama is a fraud but we can argue civilly on the facts. Next time someone calls anyone a right wing nut or zealot that is hate. Next time someone calls Obama a muslim, well, its probably hate.
Teacher bashing can be hateful but addressing the failures of the education system and funding inequities and challenging the need to pay more for less is not bashing. It's called Democracy.
I will do my best to not name call. Will everyone else?
Now back to the point. Mr. baker is on one side and me on the other. He likes the mets and jets. Is anyone surprised? LOL just a joke. he might be a good guy for wings and beer. Politically I believe he is another uninformed person. He should study the budgets and math more.

@Technokat

The spew of polical evil coming from the teachers and the crap stuffed in their bags is why I left public school and went to private school. Private school is where this type of CRAP doesn't happen. If your not raising children then you don't have a freaken clue. Thank God for that. The last thing we need in the world is your spawn's with your incorrect attitude.

"Does he really believe that gym teachers should be paid same as science? The union does. He seems bright and maybe he is a good one. let's reward him if he produces and take it from someone who fails."
It appears you feel that gym teachers are not as important as science teachers. Physical education teachers are credentialed to teach health-related curriculum. They are part of a team of educators with responsibilities for all the students in their charge. By compartmentalizing education with a hierarchy of "importance" in regard to teacher salaries, you are damaging the act of collaboration and the purpose of education. The purpose of education is not "to produce," it is to develop humanity. If health and well-being are not valued as important learning, our society will fail. Your argument is flawed by a philosophy that has no basis in child development.

"Teacher bashing can be hateful but addressing the failures of the education system and funding inequities and challenging the need to pay more for less is not bashing." No, the so-called "failures of the education system" is a fallacy perpetuated by policy-makers and corporate pundits hellbent on getting a piece of public funding for "the portfolio." You ought to do a little more research about the privatization of public schools before you comment on the "failure" of the system.

Teckno you are correct gym teachers are not as important as science, math and english teachers - that is why gym is no longer 5 days a week. Of course kids need exercise but who says that is worth $100k jobs and why are so many obese if these teachers are doing their jobs effectively? Kids cannot learn science at home. They can run around in the yard and exercise and taxpayers don't have to pay for it. Exercise is free!! try it sometime.. Your argument is union mantra! Same pay no matter what. I say that is ridiculous. We used to have home ec now its gone. Woodshop gone. Isn't that all part of the experience or was it deemed not as valuable as math or science.

I don't need to do any more research. We have all the data we will ever need. NJ Abbotts are colossal failures. The data proves the amount of money spent has no bearing on the outcomes. Cut abbott funding in half and give it to the producing schools and good teachers. I bet Mr. Baker would love a raise and would support this. All the teachers I know do.

Our society is already failing because too many are being supported by the government.

" If your not raising children then you don't have a freaken clue. Thank God for that. The last thing we need in the world is your spawn's with your incorrect attitude." I pay taxes just the same as you do for our public systems. Therefore I have a right to have a say in how these systems are run. As a human adult, I also can see that parental influence can be positive or negative. There is no need to have children to understand this.

"Teckno you are correct gym teachers are not as important as science, math and english teachers - that is why gym is no longer 5 days a week." If you believe that gym in school is not important, why not volunteer to encourage children to get exercise after school? Work with ALL the children in the neighborhood including the disadvantaged and those with special needs. You should be responsible for meeting the emotional, cognitive, and physical needs of each and every one. Since you think it is a job that can be done "at home," you obviously feel qualified to do it. You believe that you know what physical educators actually do. Phys. ed. teachers teach a specific amount of students in a given schedule which is partly the determination of contract. Other parts are based on credentials, experience, and the results of evaluations. Education is about collaboration, not hierarchy of philosophies of subject area worth. All teachers are responsible for collaboratively educating the students they have in common. Classrooms do not operate in a vacuum.

You and Guess are putting a great deal of effort into "exposing" the author of this article--just think how much you could accomplish if you put this energy into supporting all children? You could solve the issues of poverty that influence learning-readiness in the Abbott neighborhoods. Disadvantaged children, just like those of hateful parents, will always be "behind the eight ball" when it comes to achieving the goals of society.

Teckie how do you know I don't volunteer. In fact just got home from volunteering at church so there. There you go again off on BS. I say outsource gym like they did with all the other people who were outsourced. Is the lunch lady any less important in the experience? I spend a lot of time pointing out lies, inaccuracies and one sided posters like yourself. I just love how you try and use clever guilt laden phrases. After losing point after point you invoke the "disadvantaged" children nonsense. I have a special needs child and you said you didn't have kids in the system so who is better equiped to assess failure...you or me? So far you have yet to answer any questions of solve any problems just like Obama but like Mr. Baker wrote, he won. In NJ Christie won and thank god for that.
Let us know when Obama makes people less poor or smarter or whatever he promised he would do. That is what it comes down to. Anyone can win an election by promising to give things out like Santa. The challenge is actually fixing something.
In the case of NJ teachers, paying more for pay, pensions and benefits doesn't improve the education of children, doesn't help disadvantaged kids, doesn't help obese all it does it give more to teachers based on lack of accountability.

For someone who claims to be the police of civility, you really don't know very much. and the phrase "teacher bashing" or "teacher haters" are more examples of propoganda which is a form of bullying.

“Teckie how do you know I don't volunteer. In fact just got home from volunteering at church so there.” Your debate response is, “So there” and you want your words to be taken seriously? Reading comprehension is important to this debate. No one said that you do not volunteer. It was suggested, since you think you know more about what’s important in schools, that you ought to volunteer to encourage ALL the children in the neighborhood to exercise, not just those who go to your church. Public schools teach ALL children.

“Is the lunch lady any less important in the experience?” Some school children have absolutely no contact with food service because they bring their own lunches, so this is a worthless comparison.

“After losing point after point you invoke the "disadvantaged" children nonsense. I have a special needs child and you said you didn't have kids in the system so who is better equiped to assess failure...you or me?” Who is losing? One special needs child is not ALL of them. I do not believe that having a child, in regular or special education, makes anyone qualified to teach all of them. You spend a lot of time refuting just what exactly…your misinterpretation of other people’s statements?

“Let us know when Obama makes people less poor or smarter or whatever he promised he would do.” One politician cannot solve problems—communities can. Start by supporting public schools that, incidentally, have improved their services for the special needs population over the years. Most parents of special needs children understand that.

“In the case of NJ teachers, paying more for pay, pensions and benefits doesn't improve the education of children, doesn't help disadvantaged kids, doesn't help obese all it does it give more to teachers based on lack of accountability.” You obviously have zero experience in education, but thanks for offering your dearth of wisdom on the topic. Another lesson: Investing in teachers provides a dedicated staff. Without this staff, you leave teaching to the whims of policy-makers who are more interested in the cheapest labor, not the most professional labor. Pay your staff commensurate with credentials and experience—stop using children as a reason to cut “the bottom line.”

“For someone who claims to be the police of civility, you really don't know very much. and the phrase ‘teacher bashing’ or ‘teacher haters’ are more examples of propoganda which is a form of bullying." Teacher-bashing is real, and it has been going on for three decades as a movement to disband unions. This “failing schools” fallacy has very little to do with research about what works in the schools—it has everything to do with privatizing public education. Teacher-bashing goes hand-in-hand with the comments of those who are anti-public unions. They are being brainwashed by corporate politicians. If radical thinkers do not see the folly of their ways, their support will be lost. This last election proves it. Obama won the popular vote AND the electorate. The times, they are a-changing. It’s time to think outside of your own little world.

You have children? Oh dear god. May the lord have mercy on us all.

lyin ryn is a fact
mittens is a hypocrite flip flopper
Bush is the worse President
He lied about Iraq and Katrina loved the Brownie video

Question
If Bristol didnt have rich parents just how would she have porvided for her baby?
right welfare from a welfare state

Was there a point in those replies to me ?

To Jersey Strong...
Some people keep their mouths shut and are thought to be fools, others spew their venom and remove all doubt. If the shoe fits...

The fact is that Bristol's parents had money so it is ridiculous to attempt to suggest what she might have done. You prove only one thing by your suggestion and that is, if you were in the same situation you would latch onto the government teat with all your strength until it was dry and then cry for more as long as someone else was working to provide it.

I will commend the Palins for working hard and then using their earnings to support their family. On the other hand, the liberal way was evidenced by Julia Roberts who when making $20 million dollars per film decried Bush for cutting welfare because some of her relatives were dependent upon it.

Its so blatently obvious that asset envy is alive and well.

As a Conservative Republican, I am sooo pro choice. Our choice, may you be Republian, Democrat or Independant is to either abort or support.

I support the latter, as supporting more than half a generation who writes 'father unknown' on their newborn's birth certificate is beyond the pale - nevermind expensive. As a taxpayer, I'm finanially responsible for the support of a child, because the mother claims she doesn't know the name of the man who fathered her child.

As for Jersey Strong - you may be confusing Julia Roberts with Jessica Parker?

@mtwnres....well said.

Unfortunatly this is what are teaching our children.

"Unfortunatly this is what are teaching our children"

Unfortunately, you are influencing your children with hate, rhetoric and incredibly poor writing skills. No school can undo all the damage that ignorant parents do.

@Technokat

BLAH BLAH BLAH.....Kiss off!!!!!!

Ah, there is another ignorant and hateful remark. Do you have ANY support for your assertions, or do you just like to spew the same useless commentary that you hear from Limbaugh or Hannity?

now you start to speak of foul mouths and who can run them? lol. a little my entitled friend. you think you were entitled to let those repeating the rewards of you silence against these negative or attrocities to our societies? we are a few days late and millions of dollars short of shotting off the disfunictionaly information being spread by media globally and especially here at home. God Luck or good luck getting that geni or devil in the bottle now. it's main stream hollywood. ie. jewish owned media?

JerseyStrong - Apparently your stuck in a time warp. Bush may have involved us in two wars, but your dear Obama has stirred a hornet's nest. It's called, 'The Arab Spring.' American tax dollars paid for it. As I type this, there are more than 22 countries chanting 'Death to America.' Your feckless leader has outspent every President from George Washington, to George Bush - all in four years, and to date, without a budget. You can thank Harry Reid for that non existant budget. BTW - Obama presented his own budget twice, and not a single member of his party voted for it. Fact check it, sister.

As for those 'Bush Tax Cuts,' never you mind. They are about to expire. You can be sure, the consequences of this past election come to fruition. If you are employed, the burden of horrendous tax hikes will be yours to relish.

Nevermind Paul Ryan, or Mitt Romney. They are finished, and any hope of a financial recovery has been lost. It is your party that won. It is my suggestion that every elected Republican simply roll over and let the Democrats have their way. Let them spend us further into the abyss, and lead us straight into financial disaster.

This will be the Democrats/Socialists/Marxist legacy.

No more debt ceiling to raise, no more borrowing from China, no more printing US dollars.

No one to blame - but themselves.

Jerseytomato

Those countries have been screaming "Death..." for a lot longer than 4 years. How much Obama has spent seems to be open to interpretation. Quite a bit from 2009 was passed in 2008. I didn't know Obama was President in 2008. Wow I'm glad I'm now informed. Why is it Conservatives always scream the sky is falling, the sky is falling? Just wondering. They seem to be such an angry bunch when they don't get what they want.

Hey Laura, I'm puzzled...
On June 5th, 2008, in regards to the 2009 fiscal budget, Kent Conrad, Senate Budget Committee Chairman, had this to say, "With the adoption of our budget today, we have clearly demonstrated Democrats' ability to govern. For the second year in a row with Democrats controlling Congress, we have passed a budget."
The day before he was quoted, “We have passed a fiscally responsible budget today,” said Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-ND). “This plan provides tax relief for the middle class. It makes critical investments in energy, education, and infrastructure. And it returns the budget to surplus in 2012 and 2013. Passing this budget represents a major accomplishment.”
Mr. Conrad stated that this was an accomplishment of the Democrats in Congress and a clear indication of their success in governing. He owned it and took responsibility for it, claiming it was the responsible thing to do. Additionally, Obama had every chance when he took office in January, 2009, to make changes. Instead, he took a trillion dollar deficit and made it the norm.
I've seen you ask questions below but not answer any; here's your chance. What's your point?

Paul

now back to reality
Come on Paul
what is the republicon answer to this question
please keep it to reality save the kool aid
anyone know how much the Bush tax cuts, the 2 unpaid for wars and medicare part d plus the interest on the wars cost? just saying

heres a question for ya
"

Tim, let me guess...you were educated in the public school system, probably in NJ, right? Yea, it's pretty evident when I read your 'stuff'. Tim, you drank so much kool-aid in the public school system that it's coming out of your eyes.
BTW, Tim, have you ever heard of a dictionary? Do you understand the concept of grammar? No need to answer, it's really only rhetorical in that the answer is so obvious.

Tammo O - how's that swipe card?

That all sounds very nice, if generic. It's shameful that more people like yourself didn't speak out twelve years ago when all the Nazi stuff began -- not to mention assassination movies, books, plays and articles -- about the previous president. It all began then and it made a lot of people think it was okay to be as nasty and disrespectful to the man in the White House as they wanted. In fact, the nastier the better.

Dave,
I completely agree with your post. I am really shocked to see the negativity here and the name calling. It's a disgrace! Especially, when we ALL have so much to do to help people get this shore area back to normal.
BTW, I am a teacher and I don't spew anything to my students that is negative or hateful about ANYONE! I tell them to respect this country and explain to them the importance of voting, and to read, read, read the facts! (If they can find them!) My grandparents were immigrants, as well, and my father a WW II veteran. The stereotyping of teachers is disheartening...(just as it is for any group...) I doubt if anyone commenting on this post didn't have grandparents, parents that came from other countries... History repeats itself, I just wish we would learn from it!

@Christine. My parents and grandparents were all born in the United States of America and so were 6 of my 8 great-grandparents and so on. It is sad that so many of the insults are coming from teachers pretending not to be teachers when posting at Patch. Teachers seem to be more dishonest than bank robbers.
I'll feel sorry for teachers when they become reasonable in their pay and benefits demands. Frankly, I wish the whole pompous lot would quit today. That way we can improve teaching at our schools and save lots of money. There are too many dinosaurs that should have been tossed out decades ago but tenure protects the incompetents. I love how New Jersey teachers flee New Jersey and the high taxes they caused as soon as they retire. They don’t even have the decency to pay back at little of the taxes they caused.
And please, can you teachers stop pretending to be concerned parents when you attack your critics. Have some dignity about yourselves and stop being pompous.

Ric spot on!

I agree 100% and feel the only thing that could be added is that everyone should identify themselves by posting their name, too and not hide behind a fictitious one.

What's the deal, Timmy, are you Baker's hatchet man? Why don't you read Dave Moskowitz's comment above and start your own blog so we can see how you think and what you really have to say when you don't have a teleprompter.
Then again, if there's an age limitation to writing a Patch blog, you probably wouldn't qualify if your age can be guessed by the tone and content of your comments.

Michelle...seriously.. your side accused ROMNEY OF MURDER FOR GODS SAKE..so its ok for the liberals to use hate speech?

I'm curious, Michelle, who did you vote for in 2008?

@Michelle To your list I would like to add Obama fathered two black children!
I love how the far right feels so entitled to their sour grapes. Their boy, Mittens, snatched defeat from the arms of victory. LOL! Remember how many polls had Mitt Witt leading? I guess republicans have to work harder to convince pregnancies arising out of rape are gifts from god. Can anything be more stupid than that statement?

Isn't Obama 50% white meaning he couldn't have father 2 black children but 2 children that are 25% white? Am I doing that wrong?

@Bella. I see you are a new name, if you are new, welcome to Patch. If you are playing games....

No one would call Obama's daughters white. Perhaps you have not seen them?

Amen, Michelle. I grew up voting and supporting Republicans. But over the last 5 or so years, the religious fundamentalist wingnuts have taken control of the party I once loved, driving folks like me over to the other side. Hard to believe I've voted for Obama twice now, given how much his fiscal policies scare the crap out of me. But I simply wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I supported the evil that has become the Republican party. If I was a little unsure when I voted, it's comment threads like this where the crazies come out spitting their vitriol and hatred that I realize what a good choice I made. Simply stated, the GOP is dead unless they cast off the wingnuts, which is like half of you on this thread. You lost. Suck it up, you babies. It's going to be a lot of fun watching you all slowly die off into total irrelevance in the coming years. I want my party back.

And when I looked up "objectivity" in the Dictionary it pointed to you as an example. Christopher. No, you don't spew vitriol. What is it with liberals like you that makes you unable to voice disagreement without resorting to name calling and the use of personal attacks?
Reference: wingnuts, religious fundamentalist wingnuts, evil, crazies, dead, babies, die off...
You're just the epitome of moderation and good judgment.

Obama is a communist, he is a terrorist, he is a muslim, he has has a secret pact with russia, he is not an american, he is going to turn america in a communist country, into a socialist country. our number one agenda is to make him a 1 term president (not to help rebuild the country?), 47% of americans are lazy, feel entitlted to a home, healthcare, handouts and that the goverment ows them something, 47% dont pay taxes so who cares about them (you insult half the country and then are suprised that they don't vote for you?), women who voted for romney just want free birth control, black who voted for romney just did it because they are black, even colin powel who worked under BUSH is too stupid to vote intelligently so if he supports obama it is only because he is black, women can't get pregnant if they are raped, barack obama needs to go back to kenya, I mean i can go on and on. I am by no means saying that the democrats have halos over their heads and never said any thing untwart. What I am saying is that the constant rhetoric for 4 years non stop and at such a high decible that the core message, if the republicans had one, got lost in the sea of all that hate and venom. You will beleive and feel what and how you want, but what i am telling you and others is until you calm down and refocus and tone it down, and try to get in touch - you will continue to lose. period.

Never underestimate the power of voter fraud...

@jerseytomato LOL. "Voter fraud." Stop this nonsense. You're embarrassing yourself.

Hey, Michelle, help me out here, because I think you might be on to something...
>> "47% of americans are lazy, feel entitlted to a home, healthcare, handouts and that the goverment ows them something,"

Can you point me to your source for that quote?......I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the crickets.

Timmy-boy, a hint...drop the abbreviations, your posts already lack sense enough without you adding to their lack of cohesion by abbreviating words that can then be understood only by you. Additionally, most people are intelligent enough to recognize sarcasm without you having to add LOL throughout your comments so we know how proud you are of yourself.

Finally, I sponsor a blog on the GT Patch. My picture is posted as well as my identity. You on the other hand hide behind a pseudonym and post illegible tripe posing as comments. You're laughable, Timmy, everybody gets it but you.

BTW, post the translations to your previous comments and I'll be glad to respond once I can figure out what you're talking about.

Finally, to suggest that "as a proponent of a free-market economy" (hey, you got that correct...Copy and Paste almost makes you appear to have a modicum of intelligence) I support corporate welfare just adds to the proof that you are totally confused. That bad logical conclusion is based solely on your misunderstanding about life in general and has nothing to do with how I act, think, or live.

Obama's superiority at campaigning included shameless distortions and character assassination. That's not the kind of managerial expertise I want to run the country. That said, President Obama has my full support for any effort he makes at reducing the national debt and size of government without compromising national security. I'll also support any effort he makes to reduce citizens' dependency upon the government.

Hey Donald,

We can only hope that the CIC is as good at 'micromanaging the numbers' for this country's debt, as he was at managing the numbers for his campaign.

We shall see.

To this Independent, Rush -- "You're a slut!" -- Limbaugh, and Michael -- banned in the United Kingdom -- Savage, are far worse than Maddow and Bashir (who admittedly, are partisan in the extreme). In any event, as I suggested above, Romney and Ryan are better off consigned to the dust bin of history, where they will most likely remain. They couldn't even out-manage the DNC, let alone manage a nation in economic distress.

You're a substitute. Did you just intrude on other teacher's classes? Exactly how would you see it firsthand? I'm sure if the same thing was done in 2000 and pro Bush, you would have had no problem. If the results were clear to see why - Why don't you provide all those horribly slanted handouts. Bias and propaganda are in the eye of the beholder. I'm glad college didn't taint your views.

To Laura:
As a "sub," I fill in for teachers unable to report to school. My firsthand knowledge is based on an assignment the regular teacher left for the "sub" to give his students. That material was horribly slanted. So much so, I kept copies which I would LOVE to share with you; however, based on your ignorant, rude and condescending reply, I have no interest in meeting you. You know nothing about me, yet you judge me as unable to be objective because I made a statement contrary to your views. My college education and original career taught me to be objective. I know bias when I see it, and it is rampant in places where objectivity and impartial information are essential, namely the media and educational institutions.

"government-run schools" Question: Do you follow Ayn Rand?

No, I don't follow Ayn Rand. In fact, only recently have I looked at anything by Ayn Rand. I recently watched "Atlas Shrugged - Part I" and then decided to try and read the book which effort is currently underway.
As for "government run schools," that thinking on my part has nothing to do with Ayn Rand. I was intimately involved in the education of my own children which started 30 years ago and thus formed my opinion about what was going on there a long time ago.
What's your take, Laura? Do you like or dislike what I wrote?

You home-schooled 6 children? Just asking.

Mr. DiBartolo,

I doubt we would agree on anything. I do not believe either party has all the answers. I vote now on social issues. I am pro-choice, pro-gay/lesbian marriage, pro legal pot (though I don't smoke) and probably anti-catholic church (I was raised catholic) and I believe we, the people, are ruining this planet. Call it climate change if global warming offends you.

I believe the government needs to stay out of our bedrooms.

I don't believe Conservatives have the market cornered on the best way to move forward. I see all these individuals on here and other sites screaming about prices. I'd like to pay a nickel for a loaf of bread or 50 cents for a gallon of gas as we did in the 60's. It's not realistic. You cannot hold progress back anymore than you can hold back the ocean. Didn't we just learn that?

I have never received welfare, food stamps, medicaid etc. but I do believe there is a legitimate need for those programs. Do I believe welfare has become for some self-perpetuating? Yes, I do. I just don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Do I believe schools are "indoctrinating" (your word, I believe) our youth. No, I don't. Parents are the first to indoctrinate their children. My son's public school education served him very well. He calls himself a Republican. Which I find ironic for he doesn't agree with any of the Republican views on social issues. So much for all those teachers and their biased teachings.

Trickle-down economics doesn't work!

Laura, the lion's share of the education of my children was provided at home or in private schools.

RE: prices...gasoline was not $0.50 in the 60's it was half that. Gas was $0.29 when I first started paying attention. When I started buying it myself it was between $0.30-$0.35/gal. Gold was between $35 to $45 dollars an ounce. Let's peg gold at about $1700/oz. and watered-down gasoline at about $3.50/gal.

I'm not exactly sure what your philosophy is, though I'd guess you're a libertarian of sorts, but you don't seem to understand the reason that prices have risen. It has nothing to do with progress. In fact, comparing gasoline to gold makes gasoline look very affordable. We went off the gold standard and then proceeded to dig ourselves into a $16 trillion dollar hole and that doesn't include our unfunded liabilities which reach into the hundred of trillions. Yes, I wrote, hundreds. What do you think happens to the dollar in your hand when the government prints billions of dollars a year? Gasoline hasn't changed; it has actually gotten less expensive to bring to market. Gold hasn't changed. Bread hasn't changed either; in fact. like gasoline, it's easier to bring to market. So, what happened?

As for trickle-down economics and your basic understanding of economics on the whole, I suggest you read somebody who knows what he's talking about like Thomas Sowell. Try this for starters on the Trickle-Down Theory:
http://www.tsowell.com/images/Hoover%20Proof.pdf

If you're going to mock "talking points" -- a term that came from the ones Clinton gave Monica to lie about offering her a job to keep quiet -- you might not want to spew a bunch from the other side. Honestly, people on both sides are turning this Patch into Facebook. It's supposed to be about coming together. Too bad more people can't follow the example of Christie and Obama.

Jack, when you can post a legible comment I will do my best to respond. Why do you insist on sitting down at a keyboard and then allowing your fingers to go nuts while your brain is disengaged? If you expect intelligent dialogue, put out a little effort. Oh that's right you are already only putting out a "little" effort because if you put out any less we wouldn't have to be bothered by you.

Can anybody please interpret this comment from Jack Corski...
>> I bet Paul youd have those 6 kids on your insurance if they are college
What is that? Is that a fragment of a thought Jack once had? Is that supposed to pass as human intelligence? Spit it out, Jack...one word at a time and you'd be amazed at what you could do.

As for insurance for my children if that's what you're asking...I work, Jack. I have an insurance plan at work for which I pay a reasonable amount of money. I pay for it and my employer makes up the difference. It costs you nothing, Jack. What's your beef?

How many pseudonyms do you write under Paul Hypocrite? I would actually, maybe, and hide behind numerous pseudonyms. Your writing style, or should I say, lack thereof, looks awfully familiar and not unlike some of the other drivel appearing here and posing as commentary. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

>> couldnt answer as to if you receive SS Medicare or disability

I can almost interpret this and think I have already answered it...I have a job. I already wrote that but wouldn't expect you to notice since it's probably hard to hear anything above the cacophony of noise in your ears of your own meandering which blocks out any other intelligible voices. BTW, I've paid into Social Security and Medicare for over 40 years, what's your excuse?

Step up Mr. Hypocrite...I, for one, would be willing to give up my Social Security, even though I've paid in for over 40 years, if everyone agreed. How about you? The point is, Mr. Hypocrite, rocket scientist that you appear to be, there is no money. We borrow or print 40-cednts of every dollar we spend now. In a couple of years no one will get either S.S. or Medicare. Have you ever heard of the term unfunded liabilities?
BTW, do me and everyone else a favor, drop it, you're too hard to follow. I'll tell you what, I'll even give you the last word. Fire away...

Here's a nice analysis of Paul's statement for those who are interested. Pelosi was just repeating some economist's analysis, that Politifact.com has ruled is "mostly false"...ie...it may not be such a big "bang for the buck" after all.. Now, of course, some people really need the government help....and others are frauds.. but, if someone needs help I'm happier to have my taxes go to helping people rather than to build some airport that nobody needs...(or a bunch of lame political advertising whether they be Republican or Democrat)....

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/dec/15/lloyd-doggett/doggett-says-1-extended-unemployment-benefits-will/

Thanks for the analysis, Kevin, though I'm not sure of your point. For one thing, it wasn't my statement, it was Pelosi's. Secondly, if you're excusing her because she was only repeating "some economist's analysis," again, she was the Speaker of the House, she should know better and I expect more than that from someone holding the purse strings. The same Pelosi, BTW, who told us we had to pass Obama-care before we could find out what was in Obama-care. I can't think of a more asinine statement than that? We need somebody like this ditz running the government?
As for people needing help, the government taking your money and funneling some portion of it to those people in need is highly wasteful and ineffectual. I would rather give that money to people whom I deem needful myself. Who decided that the government was going to become the charity arm of the American people?
Finally, political advertising is not funded by the taxpayer so the decision to spend that money as chosen rests solely with the owner of that money, not you or me or anyone else. You want to waste your money? That's your choice and I have no right to step in and tell you where you should have spent it which is exactly what it sounds like you are advocating.
In the end, what are you trying to say?

Paul, I should have correctly said it was an analysis of your comment; not statement. Sorry for the confusion... I also was not excusing Pelosi for her statement...it was rated "Mostly False". However, to be fair, such a rating indicates that there is some truth to the statement...it is neither "False" or a "Pants on Fire Lie". Her statement was just another cherry picked number chosen to fit her point of view....something that politicians (and critics) from both sides of the aisle seem so comfortable doing.
Pass Obama-care without knowing what it is? Yeah sure..sounds asinine, so much so that you have to ask yourself was it taken out of context?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/pelosi-defends-her-infamous-health-care-remark/2012/06/20/gJQAqch6qV_blog.html
Again...I'm not supporting what she said either way. However, IMO, that this country needed to pass some kind of Healthcare reform seems undeniable...
My only point about campaign spending was that 2012 set a record for it (6 billion dollars by some reports). Could this money have been more productively spent or invested? more charitably spent? Can you "buy" an election? Sure...I can't tell anyone how to spend their own money, but I can have an opinion about it. Your statement "I would rather give that money to people whom I deem needful myself". I do not support such a method for funding unemployment, medicare, or food stamp programs. Lets just say we agree to disagree on this one.

Have at it, Kevin, but I would appreciate an explanation if you choose to hold fast to your statement about Pelosi.

I borrow a dollar and give it to you. You spend it at Shop Rite. I owe a dollar to the Chinese which I will have to pay back with interest. Somehow the economy profited by an additional $0.79 over the dollar spent. Where did that $0.79 come from?

I know where the $1.00 came from...either out of my pocket, from the Chinese or Japanese, or off of the printing press. What do we have a perpetual motion machine here? Where did the $0.79 come from? And where is it now? Is it owed to someone?

Help me on this? I'm an engineer and have a pretty good handle on mathematics but this is beyond my understanding.

One would think that the more people on food stamps the worse off we are and the lousier the economy is. According to Pelosi's math, however, it seems that the more people on food stamps the more robust the economy. Again, please help me with this.

Oh, I'll completely understand if you choose not to answer - because I know there really is no answer (wink-wink).

Paul,
the Politifact.com analysis I linked in my original comment to you explains it in simple terms as well as the arguments from more conservative economist against it. (Just curious....did you bother to read it?)
However, apparently according to the economist that Pelosi and others are quoting (Mark Zandi), hundreds of variables/equations are involved in obtaining this number. I cannot explain it any better than Politifact.com did....I am not an economist nor an engineer. However, I can see some plausibility to both arguments for and against....I see "cherry picking" of numbers to fit someone's point of view either way....I believe that Politifact.com got it right when they said that statements like Pelosi's that are based on this economic analysis are mostly false. Their may be some truth to it, but "you can't take it to the bank" (Politifact's statement, not mine). I like facts that you can take to the bank..hence I don't put much weight on Pelosi's statement either for her or against her.

Yes, I looked at it, Kevin, and it's not MOSTLY anything, it's ALL B.S. Here's what it states at the end: But his "fact" overlooks another fact: Economists are divided over whether unemployment aid increases GDP.

Wealth is created when something can be sold at a profit. A dollar I earned and could have invested to create wealth, given to you for no work requirement at all, does not create anything new?

I read over the piece and contend that neither you nor anyone else with a shred of credibility has yet to explain how $1.00 given away for no work can turn into $1.79. BTW, does every dollar I spend also create $1.79 of GDP? As far as I know the only dollars that help the GDP are those that are turned for a profit and I've yet to understand how food stamps generate any wealth or profit. What is overlooked here is that the food stamp dollar bill was taken away from someone, or borrowed, or printed before it could be given away as a food stamp. I'm not contesting that some need help just asking for honesty in calling food stamps what they are...A transfer (redistribution) program; "a form of income to individuals for which no current good or service is expected in return..." and "do not represent compensation for the production of currently produced goods and services." But "...represent a redistribution of income, taking money away from some individuals (taxpayers) and giving it to others." There is no wealth creation here and wealth creation is what builds an economy.

Paul, it seems that your passion for your point of view is blinding you from the truths of this argument...it is not total BS...it is worthy of discussion. Here's why. you give me a dollar for food and I must buy food.... So I go to Shoprite (part of an American coop supermarket company, btw)...Shoprite sells me a bunch of carrots for a dollar...but it only cost them 50 cents...ie they made 50 cents profit for their work...and the distributing company that moved it from the farm sold it to shoprite for 50 cents, but they only paid 25 cents so they made 25 cents profit, and the farmer sold it to the distributor for 25 cents but it only cost them 10 cents a bunch to grow...so farmer made 15 cents profit, and the guy who sells the seed to the farmer, etc, etc. So....one dollar was spent total but 90 cents of profit materialized out of thin air so to speak, because people charge for their work effort and make a profit...it adds to GDP (remember this is Gross Domestic Product...not Net Domestic Product.) Of course, this is much more complicated than my simple example (ie salaries, benefits,etc, etc) but profit is made and it is certainly plausible and not total BS... the Politifact.com article I linked explains what the problems are. Trickle down economics is suppose to work the same way...ie a ripple effect in the economy caused by the rich giving a dollar rather than the government....the fact that trickle down has not worked is the subject of another discussion though..

Kevin, the all important point...that one dollar that you think made all the profit came out of my pocket, it cost you nothing, and I no longer have access to it even though I earned it. So, though you might have spent it, I did not have the opportunity to take Now, with your theory, let's just borrow another trillion dollars, give it away, and send the GDP to the moon. How we'll pay off the debt is beyond me and it hasn't worked so far. Do yourself a favor and read what FDR's secretary of the Treasury said about all the money FDR had spent and how it had accomplished nothing.
As for Trickle Down...you read Thomas Sowell at http://www.tsowell.com/images/Hoover%20Proof.pdf (it's only 19 pages), and then tell me about Trickle Down.

HA...HA...HA...HA...the New York Times, HA...HA...HA...HA...HA...HA...HA...HA...

NJ schools always rank in the top tier of US schools by any measure. NJ is first in graduation rates. That doesn't fit into the right wing and public school hating zealots' playbook.

And he teaches social studies. If any field can be a front for ideologues and indoctrinators, that would be it. Michael, Michael, Michael.

No, alternate route means he got a degree in something other then education, then worked at least 18 months doing long-term substitution, took courses at night and on the weekends for about 2 years or so then took the exam certifications to teach. My guess, since they're in social studies, probably in the poli-sci or other similar subject. His pay is crappy for 7 years of work with a masters degree and only 50K? Private sector it'd be probably 2/3 higher, 75K+.

That schedule is pretty much true for private schools, religious schools, colleges and universities. It's been this way for ages. Teachers work many unrecognized hours doing the massive paper work involved with teaching. Just amazing the hatred for teachers and public education. NJ schools always rate at the top of US schools, in the top 3 states and is first in some aspects of education. In fact, NJ suburban schools are equal to or outperform the best school systems in the world (such as Finland, Japan, or Singapore).

Are facts hatred? I don't hate teachers. I hate the way teachers behave relative to their union and how they are paid. What employees at private firms do not go above and beyond and volunteer, work unpaid hours etc? Stop !

Do public school teachers earn more than comparable teachers at private schools? do their results warrant any extra pay?

It's a matter of accountability. Pay good teachers more. Pay more for the subjects that matter. Gym sorry isn't one of them. French is not one of them.

Shut up Barney, you racist. You hate Obama because he is a successful black man. You probably are jealous of Michelles perfectly toned, muscular arms also.

Don't be a hater because your guy lost.

Typical, your name says it all...so bias.

“Technokat, first knock that junk off about teachers get paid only for what they work. Are you daft?” As per any contract, they do. This is how contracts work: Both parties lay out the responsibilities and compensation arrangements. This isn’t rocket science, but please keep ranting—no one is taking your statements seriously especially since you continually try to “command” others to comment in a particular way.

“TEACHERS GET PAID A FAT ANNUAL SALARY.” By whose standards of “fat” are you judging? All contracts are negotiated between each local district and its corresponding education association. Many contracts are negotiated similarly in content, but not all stipulations in said contracts (including compensation arrangements) are the same. You make shoddy generalizations about salaries as if every public teacher received the same compensation, and you accuse ME of lying? Your strategy is straight out of the Romney playbook--sure you didn't vote for him? Your obvious lack of understanding of these systems is most likely the root cause of your rants. You might want to seek help before you throw a blood clot or something.

“WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A TEACHER PUNCH IN A CARD TIME?” What does this have to do with ANYTHING? You have failed to prove that anything I’ve written is a lie, yet you believe that just by saying that I’m lying, your comments will somehow make sense? I implore you to wait for your own sobriety before engaging in future debates.

Techie. You are beyond thick I must say. I never debate in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Have a nice fantasy life. Hope you never have to deal with reality.

"Techie. You are beyond thick I must say. I never debate in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Have a nice fantasy life. Hope you never have to deal with reality."
Thanks, but I do deal with reality. It's a shame that I had to explain to you how contracts work--it's a simple and logical process really. You, however, appear to deal in a world of rhetoric based on generalizing complex systems to suit your ideology. Your comments contain no points of merit, so it appears you continue your rant and insults by claiming there was nothing to debate in the first place. However you conveniently forget that you were the one attempting to refute my arguments, hence you engaged in debate. Instead of admitting that you had nothing of value to offer to this debate except for talking points, you decided to cop out with your "battle of wits" comment. Not only are your comments full of BS, but your actions are gutless.

Teachers are only paid for the days in which they work. All the "vacations" to which you refer are forced and unpaid--they cannot choose to get paid to work during breaks even if they needed to. Most do work on planning and preparation over breaks anyway because the job requires it, but they are not entitled to pay for this--it comes with the job. Did you seriously believe that all the days that schools were not in session after the hurricane were "days with pay?" No--they all must be made up. Many educator professionals have summer jobs since they cannot collect for being laid off over the summer months. They will have to delay working these jobs until the days are made up. This equals lost income for many teachers and education support professionals. Many educators pay for and obtain professional development during the summers, as well. There is no "summer vacation" for them. It is forced unemployment.

I agree that parents play one of the most important roles in the successful education of the masses. However there are far too many communities where parenting is less-than-supportive, yet many are blaming the schools in these communities for the achievement gap. The communities themselves have failed their children, and the way some people see it, the teachers have created poverty and lack of access to healthcare for these children. This is preposterous, yet so many so-called educated people follow this insane "logic."

Technokat. Tell me why you are playing stupid? A teacher's annual salary is much higher than salaries in comparable fields. And teachers do not even work a full ten months each nor do they work as much as 8 hours a day. Please do not respond with your overblown sense of moral outrage. I do not believe your dramatics. Why don’t you get a real job in the real world?
I hope you teach kindergarten because you lack any sense of logic.

Ric, you have no idea what I do for a living, but do feel free to go on about what else you know about my line of work.

Now in regard to what teachers do, how could you possibly know how many hours they truly devote to their work unless you observe them on a daily basis. Because the work required for planning and preparation far exceeds a typical daily planning period, many are at their desks before and after schools. Many take work home to complete in the evenings or on weekends when they could be attending to their families and households. Many spend countless hours in their classrooms preparing for the coming year during the uncontracted summer months. Legally they should not be there especially for liability reasons--they are not required to be there by contract and are not protected.

Why are you so hostile to the truths outlined here regarding work responsibilities? The ones on paper look great to you and I, but in actuality there are far more unpaid responsibilities teachers have.

By the way, Kindergarten teachers are among the most important on the teaching spectrum--if you've never observed the challenges of meeting the developmental expectations of children so young, you could not possibly know how demanding the job actually is. Instead, you are judging based on your obvious bias against people in the profession. I do not believe you are actually "playing" stupid, but to state what role in "stupidity" you really play would be rude.

Technokat, first knock that junk off about teachers get paid only for what they work. Are you daft? TEACHERS GET PAID A FAT ANNUAL SALARY. WHEN HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A TEACHER PUNCH IN A CARD TIME? Please do not continue your nonsensical lie about what teachers get paid unless you are ready to say they punch in a time clock and prove it. DUH?
You ask where I got my information from at the same time you spew tons of unsupported statements on behalf of teachers. I apologize; I do not know why lies annoy me - funny ain't that? So I am always annoyed when I read something written by you. I just hate stupidity and lies. Sorry.
I have one question for you. Do you really think teachers are so low you must lie on their behalf?

Teckie - here is the link to look up public contracts. Point out where in here you believe you are correct and Ric is incorrect. Please specify page # and sections

Then we will all know who is telling the truth instead of the back and forth.

http://www.perc.state.nj.us/publicsectorcontracts.nsf

Search

Contract Between Freehold Reg HS B/E-Monmouth - and - Freehold Reg HS EA
07/01/2009 thru 06/30/2012

"forced unemployment"? Oh that's rich. You have some of the best excuses and lines I have ever seen. Should taxpayers pay you when school is closed? Do you collect unemployment if you are forced to be so? Who pays for that? My cousin is a teacher and I can tell you he spends all summer at the jersey shore.

"communities have failed the children" ?

Facts are this the average teacher compensation package is nearly $100k a year - that's salary plus benefits plus pensions plus paid days off etc

Teachers on average are in the top 25% of all taxpayers income levels They just don't want yuo to know that.

Did you know teachers get paid extra to monitor lunch?

(3) The Board agrees that a stipend of $606 (2009-2010) $630 (2010-2011) $655 (2011-2012) shall be paid annually per teacher to supervise students in the cafeteria. Designation of cafeteria assistants shall be on a voluntary basis. In the absence of sufficient volunteers, the administration may assign teachers to duty. The duration of the supervision shall be one student lunch period.

“Teckie - here is the link to look up public contracts. Point out where in here you believe you are correct and Ric is incorrect. Please specify page # and sections”
Thanks for making my point for me. If you click on any number of different contracts in that link, you will notice that all are different in terms of specific compensation. Compare Manchester Twp. to Rumson, for example. Ric likes to make generalizations about salaries, but all he has to do is click on these links and see how the salaries differ. As well, compensation for professional jobs (ones that require education credentials) will not be an apples-to-apples comparison to jobs that do not require the same education credentials (as in trades verses degreed professions), although Ric seems to think that teaching jobs are commensurate with other jobs requiring the same education levels. It would be impossible to outline every single profession that requires similar credentials, but if you look at professions as a whole, you will find that teachers make far less than their counterparts in regard to salary. Compensation is made up by way of group benefits plans.
Making generalizations about compensation is not a matter of truth or lies. It’s inviting rhetoric into the debate. The proof is in the pudding. Again, thanks for the link.

“Search
Contract Between Freehold Reg HS B/E-Monmouth - and - Freehold Reg HS EA 
07/01/2009 thru 06/30/2012” Ok, I’ll bite…what is so special about that particular contract that I should search for it?
“You have some of the best excuses and lines I have ever seen.” They are neither lines nor excuses—they are the truth. I’m sorry you cannot grasp the simple concept of a legal and binding contract between two parties.
No teacher gets paid for days in which he or she does not work. That’s why there is a contract with a schedule of responsibilities, and that’s why school calendars are a matter of public knowledge. I cannot believe that you do not understand how contracts work. It’s a simple concept, really.
“Should taxpayers pay you when school is closed?” Pay me? Why would taxpayers pay me anything? IF you are asking whether taxpayers should pay a teaching staff when school is closed—first off, the board of education is the employer, not the taxpayers directly. Secondly, the board of education does not pay teachers for days in which the school is closed—that’s why there are make-up days added to the schedule when schools are closed for inclement weather. This might come as a surprise to you, but no teacher is paid for days in which they do not work. Why is this so difficult to understand?

“Do you collect unemployment if you are forced to be so?” Me, personally or just people in general? I would think that anyone could collect unemployment when forced into unemployed with the exception of those who are not working for an interval (such as teachers in the summer) but whose contracts were recommended for renewal.
“Who pays for that?” Who pays for what?
“My cousin is a teacher and I can tell you he spends all summer at the jersey shore.” It’s nice to hear that your cousin has a nice summer. What does that have to do with a legal and binding contract?
" ‘communities have failed the children’ ?” Actually, they have. When children show up to school hungry and sick, it is their families that are not providing them with their basic needs for learning readiness. When families cannot afford food and healthcare, it is due to societal conditions such as poverty. Poverty is more often a community issue than an individual one. If you think that simply working hard is going to get a person the opportunities and privileges to have food to eat and access to healthcare, you are living in a dream world. Many children are born into disadvantaged communities. If you look at any of the so-called “failing schools” in NJ, are the children in these schools living in low income/poor neighborhoods or not? You can answer that one yourself.

“Facts are this the average teacher compensation package is nearly $100k a year - that's salary plus benefits plus pensions plus paid days off etc.” There are no paid days off—we’ve been over this. Pensions are funded in part by the employees themselves. They provide a portion of their earnings to the state pension fund for use by the state. That’s partly their money you’re including in your big figure which makes your “cry of travesty” misleading. They’ve earned that money already therefore you should not count it twice in any “figure.” Compensation packages round out salaries that are not that large, and they are based on group insurance policies, again, that are all different depending on the district. Your math is being represented in a way that serves your argument, but it’s based on misleading statements. Total compensation differs from district to district and from credentialed guide column to credentialed guide column. You cannot glean anyone’s total compensation information from looking at the contracts in your link. You have to know how many years an employee has vested into the state to fully be able to calculate the total compensation including pension contributions and pay outs. You are generalizing and over-simplifying a figure to suit your argument. This is, again, misleading, but why should you let truth get in the way of your facts? Spew numbers and claim the word “average,” and that just makes it all right, doesn’t it?

“Teachers on average are in the top 25% of all taxpayers income levels They just don't want yuo to know that.” This is another insane assertion, but do tell who these teachers are in the upper 25% of all taxpayer income brackets since you’re all about exposing people’s earnings. Is your cousin on that list?
“Did you know teachers get paid extra to monitor lunch?” Not all teachers do—it depends on the contract. “Student face-time” is one area of negotiation upon which both parties may or may not agree--it’s entirely up to the bargaining unit and its employer. As well, student contact time differs when it’s instructional compared to merely supervisory. Please don’t start making generalizations like Ric—it only weakens your argument. Not all contracts have this stipulation, so it’s a moot point. You’re grasping at straws now.

Merit pay has never been proven to work in education. Schools are not factories or corporations--they are most successful when:
1) Children are learning-ready with parental and community support
2) Education staff members collaborate
3) Districts evaluate fairly and provide support for their staff members
Merit pay promotes selfish interests in schooling through cheating. It does not promote collaboration or any incentive to teach at-risk students. Likewise, merit pay is based on a narrow view of the goals of education. If you think you should expect the same results from every student, you do not live in reality. With a system such as the one you are proposing, teachers who are "unfortunate" enough to be assigned the highest or lowest performing students will never attain merit pay because the test scores of both populations rarely make significant gains. Who would want to work for a system that favors some of the staff but not others? You just discouraged quality teachers from the profession.

Do you have three minutes? I'm sure you do:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2012/10/06/six-reasons-why-value-added-and-merit-pay-arent-fair-in-three-minutes

You hit the nail on the head, DAD. It's not just a republican ideology to require schools to compete for anything. Obama's Race to the Top is flawed in this way. Testing children to death on a narrow curriculum is not improving education--it is crippling it.

There is legislation all over the country that is mandating that children of all grade levels be tested on the Common Core and be given a personal grade. This includes 5year-olds. Imagine your Kindergarten child coming home one day with a grade of "D" because he isn't developmentally ready to responsibly take a standardized test in the school's computer lab where the teacher is not even allowed to be present to help him. Strangers are expected to proctor these tests--how do you think your child would react to a stranger giving him directions and then not offering any help?

This is what's going on all over the country--all in the name of "identifying failing schools." If they couldn't find any before, the billionaire-funded politicians will definitely find them now. Their plan: Promote a "schools are failing" message, legislate impossible rules so more schools fail, then use this criteria to close neighborhood schools so that publically-funded charters can be open and corporate "benefactors" can receive tax deductions, revenue from selling technology/curriculum resources, or 6-figure salaries for "managing" them. It's a racket based on a flawed school evaluation system, and so many in the public are buying into it.

The worst part? Not only are many of these charters exempt from the very evaluative regulations used for the public schools, some charters will never serve the entire population. If they operate by lottery, they are excluding the children whose parents do not value education enough to enroll them. They'll be lost.

If only "some" children get in, what happens to the other children? Well, they would go to what's left of their underfunded neighborhood schools where no quality staff would want to teach due to the lack of academic freedom and rights to due process that are slowly being legislated away. These children have no advocates.

Some charters look great on paper, but check out the disparities in enrollment between the beginning of the year and the end. Check their enrollment over the course of a few years. Did it go down? Many so-called "successful" charter schools counsel out at-risk, ELL and special needs children who will bring down their success rates or they will accept a handful of the more "manageable" cases to prove they serve across demographics.

Is this educating the public? Heck, no, but policy-makers are still justifying using public funding to operate them. If you aren't angry about this, you should be.

Al Shankar proposed charter schools to be part of the public systems and to help the very children that so many do not include. The current charter school system invites segregation and makes it legal.

Yes, it is the same pay. However so many people like to call it "vacation" which it is not. Teachers get nickeled and dimed for every minute they are out. Many apply for co-curricular positions to make some extra money. These are paid at a very low hourly rate, but they are still paid positions. Many people would expect teachers to just volunteer their time outside of the contracted day to provide this additional instruction.

Teachers are also expected to accrue professional development hours that are not necessarily paid and are often obtained on their own time.

Some faculty meetings are 15 minutes--some, one hour or more. It is a given that teachers will attend them regardless of length. Most contracts stipulate a reasonable amount of these meetings per month and a reasonable length of time for them.

Many teachers are required to attend events after the contracted day to communicate with parents and community. These are not services with additional pay, yet failure to attend them may result in discipline if they are responsibilities agreed upon in the contract.

There are many unwritten expectations for teachers and administrators, and there are plenty of educators (like your sister-in-law) who put in far more time than their contracts state that they need to. It comes with the job, yet bashers never mention this point. It's far easier to criticize people for what they have than to actually understand what they do to have it.

10 months salary for 10 months of work. Can't pay someone when the business is closed.

Low hourly rates? $35 bucks an hour to monitor detention is low?

14
J. Teachers who perform detention proctoring shall be compensated at the hourly rate of
$32.23 (2009-2010), $33.52 (2010-2011), $34.86 (2011-2012). This amount shall be paid at a pro rata hourly basis if the detention period is less than one hour.

A. As of September 1, all employees shall be entitled to ten (10) sick leave days each school year, with the exception of twelve-month secretaries and Computer Technicians who shall receive twelve (12) sick leave days per year, as of the first official day of said school year whether or not they report for duty on that day. Unused sick leave days shall be accumulated from year to year with no maximum limit.

Heck if a teacher runs the yearbook club, they get another $5k

All you have to do is look it up.....

And to hear some posters tell the tail: "Schools are failing and putting out uneducated kids." Sounds to me like school is actually more challenging to the average and at-risk student now more than ever before. All these rigorous expectations certainly leave more room to identify "failing schools" in order to close and privatize them, right? Now you're starting to catch on.

Teckie the Abbott districts spend nearly double what the average district spends per student and produces worse results. Is that your idea of a good system? If they get more money, how are they at risk?

In fiscal year 2013, an estimated $4.4 billion of a total of $7.7 billion (56.3%) in State aid will go to the 31 former- Abbott districts (which represent just over 5% of New Jersey’s nearly 600 districts).

56% goes to 31 districts that do not even compete with the other 570.

Good system. The failure of the Abbott schools must be some other reason because it ain't money.

@Hingle, don't confuse the state money going out to the Abbott's from the local monies raised. Most of these districts don't have the same tax base as other districts. That accounts for the disparity. The simple fact of the matter is we will not solve the Abbott district's funding without solving the social issues prevalent in the Abbott district's themselves.

@old soldier

did you miss the Bush admin?
you know the Admin that brought you 2 unfunded wars , tax cuts that didnt produce jobs , unpaid for Medicare part d plus interest

Funny how you probably weren't concerned about the debt as Bush was amassing it. Just another old angry white man, I'm sure. The Republican party is or is becoming an anachronism. Deal with it. I'll bet you have no problem with, what is it Medicare D. Didn't Bush enact it with no provision to pay for it? It's called hypocrisy. Conservatives are so good at it.

Laura I cared about the debt under Clinton, Bush and now Obama.

Obama ran around claiming the debt was bad in 2008 only to add gazillions to it. Guess he didn't really give a crap now did he.

Question is do you care? If so, what are you prepared to do about it?

To Union - I am aware of the wars. They were undeclared - Something I also do not favor (War Powers Act). Tax cuts do not produce jobs, people that run businesses do. Ask a business owner if tax increases or decreases will encourage him or her to hire more people. As far as healthcare - When was the last time you saw someone turned away from a hospital?
To Laura - I'm glad you used the word "probably" in your response. To answer, yes I was very critical of Bush's stimulus plan, which is one of many reasons why I "vote for the person, not the party". I'm not angry, just saddened. I believe the country I served does not care when it comes to our politicians in return for getting a handout of some sort. There is no accountability for them. With hypocrisy - It lies not only with the politicians, but the voters as well. There was a time when hypocritical people would vote for the President who wanted to balance the budget, but vote for the Congressman who promised to bring Federal money home. Not anymore. Now It's blatant, we don't care about the country or the debt our children will inherit, as long as we get ours. But keep telling yourself you want fairness for all. One question for you - What makes you think I'm white?

your guy lost because educated ppl dont believe in magic underwear

@Barney No No No NO No - your guy lost because he ran an idiotic campaign focused on social issues that the country has already moved forward on. And your guy lost because of the ghost of George W. Bush. Only an idiot would want to go back to the Bush II admiration.

It amazes me how Mittens was so stunned when he realized he lost. Even our governor saw that coming days ago. Mittens had no clue he would lose Ohio – is he blind? I saw that weeks ago. I guess the republicans are the party of old senile men.

Ric Obama won because minorities and urban voters voted for him along with 40% of white people.. Why do you keep insulting the 60% of white voters who did not support Obama? What makes you so much better than them?

Your guy lost because he flip-flopped his way to defeat. He was for everything before he was against it. Plus the trees were just the right height. The Republican party has become the party of old white men. The Republicans just re-elected a feeble 84 yr old as Sheriff. That just says it all.

Laura you are aware that NJ elected dead man walking Frank Lautenberg again a few years ago....he's like 105! good try though.

Dad Sour Grapes . - Whatever. Keep thinking that. That assures me that the right wingers are so out of it, they will not notice it when moderates take back their republican party.

You also need a license to own a dog, practice medicine or law, and teach, but you don't need a license to have a child. Still, you cannot take away a person's right to procreate or vote in this country. You need to accept the will of the willing to vote. The real tragedy is that there is a seemingly unlimited amount of campaign funding in that corporations can outspend the average person. There ought to be a law stating an allowance of one dollar per contributor-- one buck per one vote. Obama proved to have a better ground game in getting his constituency out to the polls.

DAD do you believe in Santa Claus too? I know the majority who cast votes this year do.

Teckie here is some more info on Freehold teachers pay - wow they pay someone to coach bowling.

Step 1Step 2Step 3Step 4

Baseball(B)/Softball(G)–Head 6,753 6,859 6,965 7,071
Baseball(B)/Softball(G)-Asst. 5,713 5,819 5,925 6,031
Basketball – (B&G)-Head 7,634 7,740 7,846 7,952
Basketball – (B&G)-Asst. 5,796 5,902 6,008 6,114
Bowling – (B&G)-Head 5,414 5,520 5,626 5,732
Bowling – (B&G)-Asst. 4,788 4,894 5,000 5,106
Cross Country – (B&G)-Head 5,871 5,977 6,083 6,189
Cross Country – (B&G)-Asst. 4,645 4,751 4,857 4,963
Field Hockey – (G)-Head 6,753 6,859 6,965 7,071
Field Hockey – (G)-Asst. 5,713 5,819 5,925 6,031
Football – (B)-Head 7,816 7,922 8,028 8,134
Football – (B)-Asst. 6,013 6,119 6,225 6,331
Golf (B&G) 5,413 5,519 5,625 5,731
Gymnastics – (G)-Head 6,753 6,859 6,965 7,071
Gymnastics – (G)-Asst. 5,372 5,478 5,584 5,690
Lacrosse – (B&G)-Head 6,753 6,859 6,965 7,071
Lacrosse – (B&G)-Asst. 5,713 5,819 5,925 6,031
Soccer – (B&G)-Head 6,753 6,859 6,965 7,071
Soccer – (B&G)-Asst. 5,713 5,819 5,925 6,031
Swimming Team – (B&G)-Head 6,753 6,859 6,965 7,071
Swimming Team – (B&G)-Asst. 5,713 5,819 5,925 6,031
Tennis (B&G) 5,413 5,519 5,625 5,731

Barney that is why the House is still majority Republican. The districts don't fall for the same nonsense. Obama can't stuff anything down our throats when the majority of districts in this country oppose Obama.

Hingle, why are you concentrating on Freehold Regional? Do you have some sort of fascination with that district? Granted it is a large district, but it's hardly a poster child for all NJ schools.

People are paid for their time, risk, and expertise. If you do not think people should be compensated for their time and training as well as the responsibility for all the students in their charge, then it explains a lot about your comments. I took you for someone who was bright enough to understand the concept that people ought to expect and receive compensation for doing a job. A big problem with your thinking is you are judging which jobs you feel are worth getting paid to do and which aren't. I have news for you--no one will look after large groups of children from the public (let alone teach them) for free no matter what the position, whether it be a server at Chuck E. Cheese or a trained educator. You are living in a dream world if you think that people should just teach children skills without compensation. Not every "dad" is going to coach out of the kindness of his heart or because he is a member of a congregation. If it's his profession, he expects compensation for his time and training. You should expect that for him, too.

Tell you what--how about you volunteer at your job and see if that seems fair. How does anyone here know that your time and expertise are worth compensation?

Use logic. Here is a major clue. Listen to your complaints about democrat voters in your family and then ask yourself can a democrat say the same thing against republican voters at Patch. I can assure you that I feel the same way about how the rabid bible thumpers in my family always vote republican because the republicans thump bibles harder. My point is there are stupid voters on both sides. Only hitting just one side, the winning side (democrats) is nothing more than sour grapes.

By the way, I consider myself a moderate republican but the party bible thumpers have made me want to switch sides.

Brilliant. I feel so sorry (NOT) for those teachers who only get paid for 10 months a year at that miserly $40 to $48 a year. LOL! It would be great if someone could add to your information the cost of benefits too.

The kicker is once these grossly overpaid teachers retire, they flee the state because they do not want to pay the taxes that pay for their plush retirement.

Hingle, your summer hours comment falls short of actually telling the whole truth: How many hours are available at that rate? Enough to make a mortgage payment? Can you prove how many hours are available? Most districts offer ten or less curriculum hours. If there are summer school positions, how many hours can a person work there? Let's see what your research comes up with.

Which business manager? Which district? What is the criteria for "average?" Using an average for this figure is preposterous given the variability in every situation. Most teachers do not know what their pensions will pay out until they calculate this figure based on years of service, age, salary at the time of retirement and retirement date, so how can you expect a business manager to know this information "on average?"

Up until last year, the state of NJ didn't even know what pensions and benefits were worth--legislators passed a pensions and benefits contribution bill and never did the math until several months later. The contribution schedules were not available at the time of the passing of legislation. The state decided to pass a bill with no dollar amounts figured out--yet they snowed the general public into believing it would "make a difference in the state budget." If the state funded the pension system all those years ago, there wouldn't have been a deficit. The state basically spent the money that the pensioners earned and then blamed them for its disappearance. Try borrowing money from a bank, losing it all, and then complaining that the bank expected the loan to be paid back, and try getting away with not paying it.

Again, every district is different in terms of compensation amounts. Touting an across-the-board figure that colors every situation is foolish.

So become of teacher

Somehow I think Jefferson is also rolling over in his grave at Obama & company being voted in again.

“I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.”

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

Believe it or not - I agree with much of your posting. As far as the taxes paid goes, do you not think a Federal and State flat tax would be the answer? How about eliminating tax loopholes? I for one think so.
As far as the insurance goes - How about tort reform? Amazing how our elected officials (most I believe are lawyers) will not touch that, but want to tax and recreate healthcare otherwise. But don't touch their piggybank.
I agree that businesses thrive on demand, and reasonable taxation is the price for doing that business. However, too much taxation becomes a damper. Then what is the result? Let people go?
In my opinion, those running our government created the "boogeyman" in big business, and government the "hero" and give the majority of voters something in return, then who is left out in the cold? In my opinion, the guy/gal who is trying to make the American Dream a reality for his/her family. I don't believe oil wells are the answer. Eliminate some Federal, State and County offices and departments, flat tax, legal reforms, and the abolish the War Powers Act would be a great start.
Our children and grandchildren will have to deal with this mess we the people voted for. Our grandparents and great-grandparents were known as the greatest generation. They sacrificed themselves and built much of what we use today. What will our generation be known for? That we sacrificed everything for our own benefit? Not a good legacy for the history books, in my opinion.

more like what Mittens did at Bain

The fact is that teacher work 185-190 days a year. The average private sector worker works 239 days a year (5x52-15 days vacation plus at least 6 holidays.) Most work less than that. Teachers also work "off the clock" alot, i.e., prepping their classrooms for the school year and ideas relevant to thier subject matter; writing those college recommendations that all of you scream about if you don't get for your kid, but they are not obligated to write; chaperones at the various school activities throughout the year (remember, they are there for your kids, not theirs); getting in early or staying late to help with tutoring; updating lesson planes with the ever increasing mandates by the state, sometimes several times a year; and receiving nasty comments from parents who think the schools should raise their child, while trying to remain calm during a parent teacher conference (which they also don't get paid for). So, please stop your whining. Most of you will say, "that's part of their job." And it is, but it is also part of their compensation. And no, I am not, nor ever was, or has a family member who is a teacher. I just know that I was sucessful because of teachers. I had some crummy ones. But the far majority were professionl, kind and reasonable.

No argument there. I am just tired of people whining that "teachers only work 180 days a year." They don't work just 180 days a year. They work far more and that's all I was trying to point out. You are circumventing my point. Teachers are also paid the same as private sector employees. However, private sector seems to continually aruge that teachers "only" work 180 days a years. My point is to stop complaining about what they work, since they work far more than their contract states they have to - pretty much like the private sector who complains about them pretty much.

You are certifiably nuts thinking the republicans respect the military after Dubya sent them to two wars in the Middle East which we lost. But draft dodgers like you claim to be pro-military to hide the fact you never served. It is pretty despicable that a person like you who never served a minute claims to be a defender of the military. LOL!

Where we not supposed to go after Bin Laden? Majority of democrats voted for the war along with I believe 60 other countries.Thank You Dems. War not lost yet. If our enemies go back in after we pull out before we're ready, then yes Barrack Hussein will have lost those wars. Thank you Vets, we Republicans will always support you!

DAD Do you have a life offline? Or did your man leave you?

lol really? Id believe Powel before Bush any day
Didja miss the Brownie Katrina video?
I didnt
Hey howd those Bush tax cuts do for creating jobs?
Besides magic underwear what is/was the republicon plan for reducing the debt?
Why didnt Bush put the 2 unfunded wars plus medicare part d on the books?

Now if your going to use my moniker. . .spell the General's name right!

According to poll results in Ohio, there were less Republicans voting for Romney, than who voted for McCain. Was that because he ran against Obama, or he just didn't turn on the Republicans there. His white vote performance in " conservative northern states" wasn't nothing to brag about either...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/in-ohio-the-gop-puzzles-over-missing-white-voters/article/2513293#.UKK9dIbThSX

http://www.tnr.com/blog/electionate/110039/the-gop-has-problems-white-voters-too

Not sure what your point is. In Ohio, Romney ran against Barrack O Claus. It's tough to beat someone when your message is "work" and the other guy's message is "free bagels and coffee while the other guy works."

There's your explanation for why Romney got less votes than McCain.

For what its worth, according to the final tallies from Politicos website

O won Ohio 2.9 to 2.7M in 08 and won 2.7 to 2.6M in 12. O lost 200k votes. R lost 100k.
O won PA 3.3 to 2.7M in 08 and won 2.9 to 2.6M in 12. O lost 600k votes in PA to none lost by R
O won Illinois 3.4 to 2M in 08 and won 2.9 to 2.1M in 12. O lost 500k votes and R picked up 100k.

Total for those 3 O wins -1.3 Million votes
Romney matched McCain on less overall turnout

Nationally O won by 3 M votes.
O won CA by 2.2 M
O won NY by 1.6 M

R won the other 48 States by 800,000 total

Forker- that was the point of those links. Romney got less votes than McCain did in 2008. Apparently our "Claus" blogger can't face reality just yet?

Romney and the RNC did not motivate enough of their people. This point was also bought out last Sunday night by a syndicated conservative talk show host named Bill Cunningham, who operates out of Cincinnati, Ohio...when he was comparing the tally out of Hamilton County there...raising the same question. . .where were the Republican voters?

Ok ok ok spooner thanks for the laugh. for a moment there I thought you were talkin about Jim McGreevey our last gay Governor.

In all seriousness, when you say the adults get to run the government.
Does that mean you condone trillion dollar annual deficits. Is that adultlike?
Does that mean you condone borrowing money from China to pay welfare? Adultlike?
Do adults borrow money from China pay Billions in interest costs so they can pay out welfare? Is that what you are referring to?
LOL! Boy is that funny to think adults do that!!!
Maybe you think Adults who lie and have affairs while in office is adultlike? Is it adultlike to commit perjury? Don't adults go to jail when they do that?
Is it adult like for your party to vote to do all of the stuff they blame of Bush? Is blaming someone else for your actions an adultlike quality?
Again, thanks for the laughs.
Here's one for you to laugh about or maybe cry!!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

$16.2 trillion and climbing.........adult in the room. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA that's rich!

It's amazing there are still poor people out there with all of your guys great ideas. At some point, don't you have to actually fix a problem and not make it worse??

@Forker. Are you assuming our current governor Chris Christie is 100% straight? What sort of test did you give him to reach that conclusion? He could be a closet case and uses food to suppress his hurt.

Is the stare of Ak, a welfare state,by giving a check to everyone who lives there a socialist state?
Does that make Sarah nailin Palin a socialist? you betcha

Willam Marino, CEO of Horizn B/C B/S has a salary of $935.000 per year, and was paid $7.8 Million in bonuses last year. They may be listed as a "not for profit" company, but hard to deny that management is NOT profiting. At least Apple is a private company, and has investors who can enact change in the management if not happy. Just sayin...

Boards of companies decide pay. BC's board gave him his contract. Apple's board gave Tim Cook his. Investors in Apple ie big companies voted to put these people on the Board. People like.......

Are you aware Al Gore is on the Board of Apple? Big Climate Change Al supports outsourcing jobs to China where there are no greenhouse regulations and paying executives $378 million.

Not a little bit of hypocrisy.......????

Further, did you know Al Gore gets paid millions to authorize Tim Cook's pay package? Now what qualifications does Al Gore have to be on Apple's Board? Peddling influence perhaps?

Apple's CEO made 378 million. that's more than BC made in profits.

This was comprised of $900,000 of cash salary and a $377 million stock grant.

How come none of the occupiers are complaining about that? How come its only the insurance companies and THEIR FAT CATS management getting rich?

Let's all agree to Boycott Apple until they make phones here in the US and pay decent wages and benefits shall we?

psst stinki

climate change is real
magic underwear is not