Gunman Kills Two Co-workers and Himself at Old Bridge Pathmark, Prosecutor Says
Neighbors at the nearby London Terrace apartments say he was living there and working at the supermarket
A 23-year-old man, described by neighbors as a recently discharged military veteran, shot and killed two co-workers before taking his own life at the Pathmark supermarket in Old Bridge early Friday morning, according to Middlesex County Prosecutor Bruce Kaplan.
Kaplan, who did not release the names of the alleged gunman or his two victims, said that all three were working an overnight shift at the store, when the suspect left at about 3:30 a.m. Shortly thereafter, at about 4 a.m., he returned and "entered the store, firing his weapon," Kaplan said, but apparently not targeting anyone in particular. The shooting ended when the gunman, "we believe, killed himself," the prosecutor said.
"Two of the employees were shot and killed," Kaplan said. "The others were able to hide and escape." He said that 12 to 14 employees were in the store at the time of the shooting.
The two victims were described by Kaplan as an 18-year-old female and a 24-year-old male, both residents of Old Bridge. The victims were later identified as Cristina LoBrutto, a recent graduate of Old Bridge High School and Bryan Breen of Laurence Harbor in Old Bridge and the shooter as Terence Tyler, a Marine veteran, who did not serve overseas.
Kaplan did not confirm media reports that the alleged shooter was wearing body armor or had a military background but said that he was armed with an AK-47, multiple ammunition magazines and a handgun and that police believed the AK-47 was the source of the fatal shots. He said it appeared that as many as 16 shots had been fired in all and noted that windows near the entrance of the store had been shattered.
Dragan Jovanovic, general manager at a nearby Staples, said he found service roads to his store blocked off when he arrived for work at 7 a.m. and went instead to the McDonalds on Rt. 9, where he encountered several supermarket employees and other witnesses to the shooting.
Jovanovic, 46, of Union County, said they told him the shooter "was terminated last night, during the shift, and he came back, like, an hour later. The door were locked. He threw a shopping cart through the window and started shooting." One employee told Jovanovic he "heard a loud bang and somebody shouted, 'Everybody run to the back of the store.'"
Residents at the London Terrace apartments, behind the Old Bridge Pathmark, watched hours later as police detectives left the apartment complex with a couple neighbors described as the parents of the alleged shooter.
One woman at the complex said Tyler had recently returned from service in the U.S. Marines and moved into the apartment complex.
A Star-Ledger report on nj.com described angry postings on Tyler's Twitter account.
His military background was also referenced by Manase Acheampong, 25, of Old Bridge, who said he was an acquaintance of the alleged guman's cousin. Acheampong said he had met the alleged gunman twice, once last winter and once on July 4. "The two times that I hung out with him, a normal kid, we just went out for a few drinks," Acheampong said.
Among the neighbors interviewed by Patch at London Terrace was a young man who said he worked with the suspect and the two shooting victims at Pathmark. He said both victims were cashiers at the supermarket and that the 18-year-old woman was new on the job.
Several neighbors who watched police escorting a man and woman from the apartment complex said they recognized them as the parents of the suspected gunman. One man, who said he was a friend of the family, told Patch they had made reference to him having been upset by an earlier workplace incident of some kind, though it was not clear whether this was related to his having left his overnight shift early Friday, shortly before the shooting, as described by Kaplan.
Swat teams from Middlesex County and several nearby townships, arrived at the shooting scene minutes after the incident and early morning commuters and residents awoke to sirens, flashing lights and traffic disruptions. A park-and-ride area at the plaza is heavily used by commuters traveling on NJ Transit buses.
Carolyn Anders, who had stepped out onto her balcony to watch the commotion before police gestured her back inside later walked to the Pathmark, where said she frequently shops.
Her toddler grandson in hand, Anders said that guns were "out of control in America" and, apparently referring to the shooters military background, added, "Why can't our administration do something to take care of our soldiers?"
Kaplan said she believed she knew the shooting victims, from having shopped in the store. "Its horrible," she said. "An eighteen year old girl lost her life."
The heavy police presence continued at the scene hours after the incident. Shortly after 10 a.m., a blue hatchback was seen being towed from the plaza with a police escort.
This is a breaking news story. Check back with Patch for more details.
JosephGhabourLaw
9:23 am on Friday, August 31, 2012
My sincerest condolences go out to the family members and friends of those killed. May those injured have a speedy recovery. It is truly a shame that violence, not words, were used in what was apparently a workplace dispute.
Robert Cost
9:36 am on Friday, August 31, 2012
your article about this man is very speculative no ..what was he wearing or who he is.
how would channel 11 or nbc know what he was wearing if nathing was said yet?
,
Maria Vitucci
11:25 am on Friday, August 31, 2012
the world is a ghetto. my thoughts and prayers are with those that are injured and to the families. RIP to the innocent young people who have passed.
Peggy Berger
11:44 am on Friday, August 31, 2012
I am so sorry to the families who have lost their loved ones. My heart goes out to them! :'(
Danielle Rios
11:51 am on Friday, August 31, 2012
A ghetto? We have to live in a ghetto for an incident like this to take place? That comment is truly tasteless & ignorant! Being a Military Wife, I will say that our soldiers returning from combat do need much more intensive care for PTSD & Stress, when returning home. They are expected to come home & adapt to civilian life like they never even left. This does not excuse what this man did but we keep hearing stories of our soldiers flying off the handle & we need to get them better care. I hope & pray the innocent victims rest in peace & that the 3 families who are now tragically torn apart, find some peace through this horrific event.
Dutcher
8:37 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
The article says the shooter did not serve overseas, ie no combat. And neither the Colorado theater shooter or the shooter outside the Empire State building. It is statistically inevitable that some average seeming Americans are going to cross the line. There really is nothing you can do about it.
Marc LeVine
11:54 am on Friday, August 31, 2012
This one is a little too close to home. Our troubled times seem to be creating more troubled people...our inattentiveness to early warning signs and easy gun availability have turned sick people into monsters. WE are all culpable here to some degree. We must all be more vigilant (especially family, friends and co-workers) and not remain silent when we observe the inappropriate behaviors of others. We can save lives by speaking up and speaking out.
Slav B. Shuravesky
12:23 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Tough economic times combined with soldiers coming back from a war is a nasty mix. The last time this happened in the history of this country gave us the gangster sprees of the roaring 20s.
Disagree about easy gun availability. They are quite hard to get here in NJ.
Marc LeVine
12:51 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Slav: Who says they all buy guns in New Jersey? Many go out of state or to the web to buy them.
Neil Foster
9:40 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
This Marine did not serve in combat. He didn't serve overseas... He didn't even serve a full 4-year enlistment. I doubt military service is to blame.
Neil Foster
9:49 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Marc, your statement " Many go out of state or to the web to buy them." is not accurate. It is ILLEGAL to purchase firearms by mail unless you hold a Federal Firearms License (FFL)... In other words, you must be a licensed gun dealer.
Additionally, although the law permits the sale of LONG GUNS to out of state residents, the purchase can not violate the purchaser's state law. Licensed dealers WILL ALWAYS check this because THEY will be criminally liable, and the penalty is quite severe (Felony charges, fines, prison, loss of FFL, confiscation of inventory).
Additionally, it is illegal for an FFL dealer to transfer handguns to out of state residents PERIOD.
Stuart
3:11 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Easy gun availability is not true. Both Loughner's(Gabby Giffords shooting) and Holmes' shootings(Aurora ) had the gunmen go through the NICS, National Instant Check System run by the FBI. The dealer had too call the NICS for approval of the sales. In NJ you must first get and fill out a permission to purchase form from your local police station which goes to the State Police for approval/disapproval. After 2 to 10 weeks(depending on police station) the form comes back and if approved you can go to the store and purchase your gun. At the store the dealer calls the State Police again(costing the purchaser $18) for approval and you must fill out a 4 page questionaire asking the same questions on the form sent to the State Police in the first place. If you think legally obtaining a gun is easy in NJ THINK AGAIN. An AK-47 sold in the US is semi-automatic and is not an assault rifle but if it were fully auto it would be an assault rifle. To sell full auto weapons the dealer needs a special $300 a year license issued by the BATF&E(Bureau of Alcohol,Tobacco,Firearms and Explosives) created in 1968. The buyer of a full auto weapon also needs a $300 special purchase license to purchase issued by the BATF&E. All gun dealers are licensed too operate under the strict scrutiny of the BATF&E.
Neil Foster
7:20 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Stuart, good points, but a couple of corrections, the Class III FFL required to sell a fully automatic weapon is $3,000 for three years (I used to have an FFL, but it was too much BS, so I didn't renew it). The BUYER of an automatic weapon must obtain a $200 tax stamp, only one payment until the weapon is transferred to someone else.
Additionally, George H.W. Bush signed a law that put a moratorium on automatic weapon sales to the public. A private citizen can only purchase a weapon manufactured BEFORE the moratorium. Class III FFL dealers can obtain new automatic weapons to demonstrate and sell to law enforcement agencies.
ANY sales of automatic weapons are also subject to state law (NJ you can "fugetaboutit")
Richard
11:55 am on Friday, August 31, 2012
Too close to home. Such a senseless act.
John Jay
12:06 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Every mass shooter is on Prozac or some related "anti-depressant" when they commit their crime. When the report comes out, you will find this killer was on it too!
Slav B. Shuravesky
12:09 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
The tragedy of war does not stop with those dead and physically maimed. Maimed minds and souls are harder to see and treat. Erich Maria Remarque touched on this brilliantly in his 1931 novel The Road Back dealing with soldiers returning from WWI. Something to consider when sending kids off to war. Those who come back are changed, and not in a good way.
Neil Foster
9:51 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
This kid never went overseas, therefore never went to war. He didn't even serve a HALFWAY through a 4-year enlistment.
Scott Crawford
12:23 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
I know names haven't been released yet, but I'd like to do what I can to help the families affected. Folks (at Patch and in the community alike), please keep us posted on this.
faith
3:28 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
thank u scott. my feelings are the same. my heart goes out to the families.
barbara m
12:48 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
GUN CONTROL
John Jay
1:11 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Wrong answer, barbara m -- you are going to find out this person was under the influence of drugs like prozac.
Marc LeVine
1:16 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Let's find out how he got his guns, before we comment further. Here are the choices: 1) bought lawfully. 2) borrowed. 3) stolen. 4) by deception 5) sold by another, who didn't think it smelled right, but wanted the sale and didn't want to stick his/her neck out and report something odd. We'll see.
Neil Foster
10:05 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Barbara, the state of New Jersey already has the most draconian gun control laws in the US. ALL of the weapons that Tyler used are already illegal in New Jersey. They are also illegal for a licensed gun dealer in another state to sell to a NJ resident.
Furthermore, Mr. Tyler was hospitalized for depression, which makes him ineligible to own, or purchase firearms under Federal law. He would not be able to pass a NICS check that ALL dealers must perform on all buyers (that is if the government didn't screw up and fail to put the information into the NICS system, as was the case with Gabby Gifford's shooter).
This leaves only one conclusion: The weapons were obtained illegally. It also proves the case that banning weapons will only affect law-abiding citizens. It only serves to violate the Second Amendment rights of law abiding citizens.
Zorba
8:21 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012
This is the typical uniformed reaction. If its not a gun, its a home made bomb, a car, or some other tool that can be used. Don't kid yourself. What is the root? we never talk about that. Is it what hollywood shoves down our childrens throats? is it the video games they play? I don't know for sure but I have my opinion. These kids to day are growing up in a virtual world. They are also growing up in a world where parents put thier own selfish desires before that of there children. Do they bring thier children to church? Do they make sure they are involved in wholesome activites such as scouting - and most important are they spending time with them, not just expenisve vacation time, but just plain old time? Lots of problems but its not the guns.
JJ
1:03 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
I respect the military and owe much to our war veterans and those serving to protect our freedom....but is it possible that some of these folks are a bit "off" before they sign up for the military???
JJ
1:05 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Gun control?? How about if this same guy decides to drive his car off the road onto a crowded playground instead of using a gun? Do we then ban cars?
Marc LeVine
1:24 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
JJ...I think the reason to own a car is just a bit more compelling than the reason to own an AK47. While we are on the topic of cars...we should make seniors re-take their eye and road tests at 70 (and every two years after that) and do our best to make texting and driving a very costly punishment, when caught doing the same. Same for all DUI's and new drivers violating the rules of curfew and passengers.
Joe R
1:32 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
My condolences to the victims of this horrible shooting. Gun control is not banning all guns. There are many restrictions on car ownership, you have to register the car, have a license, have photo ID, have insurance, have the car periodically inspected, pass a written exam and drivers' test. But of course, the gun lobby will reply that driving is a privilege not a Constitutional right and around we go in this senseless debate while the senseless gun violence and gun slaughter continue unabated. We should treat the returning veterans much better and give them more support. The best support of the troops is to never send them off to unnecessary, avoidable wars.
Neil Foster
10:13 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
There is one HUGE difference between gun-control and restrictions on car ownership: As we are constantly reminded, driving a car is a PRIVILEGE. Owning a gun is a RIGHT.
New Jersey already has the most draconian gun laws in the US. All of the weapons used were already illegal in NJ. Additionally, Tyler was hospitalized for mental illness, which makes it illegal for him to purchase, or own firearms. He would not be able to pass an NICS check at a licensed gun dealer.
I do agree with your comment regarding returning veterans... but this guy never went overseas, and therefore never served in combat. He did not even complete a HALF of his four year enlistment.
rfm
7:00 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Neil. A .45 handgun is illegal in NJ? Since when?
Neil Foster
2:48 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
RFM, the other articles that I read said he had a high-capacity 9mm
Marc LeVine
1:36 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
I love arguing with the right to bear arms crowd. They will not give an inch regardless of boycount or the heinousness of crimes committed. Believe me, if Thomas Jefferson were alive today he would say "holy crap, we got muskets and these guys have bazookas." This is not a reason to escalate the firepower available to average citizens on the street. Will we all eventually have an F-16 fighter jet in our driveways? Where would that end - in an average Joe, cold war-style arms race? No, this is a reason to take control of the situation and not allow every town in America to become a Dodge City or Tombstone. Guns are not a fact of life...but they are certainly a fact of death!
Neil Foster
10:15 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
The Second Amendment covers typical MILITIA weapons, which would be shoulder-fired, or handguns, not F-16s. Why is it when drunk drivers kill and maim nobody starts going off about the kind of car they drove, WHAT they drank, or WHO served them the alcohol?
Stuart
3:28 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Marc first of all Neil is wrong. An AR-15 or AK-47 semi-auto rifle is legal in the US. Second, most States except NJ have the NICS System which is run by the FBI and is contacted by the dealer for a yes or no on the sale. The NICS System is contacted by all sellers at all gun shows in the States that use the system. NJ has a check system run by the State Police. By the way the first Gun Control law was passed in 1934 making fully auto weapons illegal to civilians.The Thompson Submachine gun (the first full auto, assault weapon used by civilians)was the catalyst for the law. In 1968 the BATF&E was started. They control the manufacture,importation,distibution of firearms and licensing of all gun dealers in the US.
Stuart
3:38 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
You can't buy military weapons in a gun store in the US. No hand grenades, no bazooks, and no heavy machineguns. The firepower that a civilian can purchase is regulated by the BATF&E. Your wrong on so may facts. 44 States have legal concealed carry(8 million carriers and counting) and they have the lowest rape,robbery and murder of the States without. Chicago just became the murder capital of the US and Camden NJ is second(what do they have in common?) NJ and Ill have the most draconian gun laws in the US. The FBI Uniform Crime Report says that 30% of all murders are commited with a firearm. The other 70% by hands and feet,blunt object and edged object. One other statistic. The Center for Disease Control doesn't even list firearms in the top 10 killers in the US(heart disease is #1).
Neil Foster
7:33 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Stuart, why am I wrong? I never said that AR-15s or AK-47s were illegal, I was countering Marc's suggestion that people would be buying F-16s.
I also made a the comment that the Second Amendment covers MILITIA type weapons, not Military weapons. There is a big difference. Weapons for a MILITIA would be either shoulder-fired (such as an AR-15 or an AK type weapon).
As you said, military weapons such as grenades, bazookas, etc are considered "destructive devices" and are generally not legal for private citizens to own. Additionally, the National Firearms Act of 1934 did no illegalize private ownership of automatic weapons... It made them VERY difficult to get.
Marc LeVine
1:52 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Dominic. Respectfully, there are always exceptions made to all laws, based on changes in society. This one comes from an even "higher authority" than amendments>>>
There were always some married priests in Roman Catholicism, too, until the First Lateran Council, in 1123, banned the practice. And there have been married Roman Catholic priests again since 1980, when the church said that Protestant clergymen who became Catholic priests could stay married to their wives.
If we limited the kind of weapons allowed in homes to those that make sense (non-assault weapons), we would be respecting our 2nd amendment in the context of today's more modern world. We now occupy a world our forefathers had no possible way of imagining or framing their amendements in a 21st context. Some day we may live in a world of Phasors and Photon Torpedos. We will vaporize entire bodies, leaving no evidence for investigators to do forensics on. Yes, preserve the right to bear arms - but not high powered assault weapons.
If the Catholics will accept married Priests, we can accept weapon restrictions.
Neil Foster
10:17 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
That is the most idiot analogy that I've ever seen.
JJ
2:13 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Some people are missing my point. The point is this: if you are crazy enough to shoot someone then you are crazy enough to run some one over, poison them, send them bacteria in the mail, bomb them, light their house on fire, stab them, etc. Get it? The problem here isn't the gun it is the crazy person. It isn't guns, wars, global warming, or the constitution it's the crazy person. So take the anti gun talk, the "avoidable wars" comments and any other political spin elsewhere and assign the blame to THE INDIVIDUAL that was insane.
Marc, I agree I think everyone should take eye at road tests starting at age 50. I am sure there are better 80 year old drivers than a 50 year old. Also agree on texting and driving.
Stuart
3:46 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
JJ you are correct. According to the AAA 17,000 teens are killed a year in driving accidents(either driver or passenger). The FBI Uniform Crime Repot says firearms are used in 30% of all murders. The other 70% are hands and feet,blunt object and edged objects. Heart Disease is the number 1 killer of Americans(unhealthy eating,obesity,smoking) and that is easier too obtain than a firearm.
jake
2:15 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
To those who seem to be jumping to the ptsd defense....the article clearly states that he did not serve overseas. Just because someone is recently discharged from the military does not mean they ever saw combat or are suffering emotional distress. He could have just been a lunatic, or have snapped, or had a grudge against someone....it will come out in time. Also, the whole gun debate is so senseless. If you ban or restrict guns....the ONLY people who will not be able to carry one are the law abiding citizens. Criminals who want guns, will still get guns....many drugs are illegal and people who want them seem to have no problem getting them. Instead of gun control, how about beefing up the mental health awareness and assistance in this country.
Neil Foster
10:17 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
I agree 100%!!
John Jay
2:21 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Please don't take this the wrong way -- but Why are you blaming the firearm, Marc LeVine, and not the person who did the crime? The worst mass murder prior to 9/11 was a lone nut who fire-bombed a nightclub in New York -- 87 people were killed with a "Molotov Cocktail".
"RE: Marc LeVine 1:24 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012 JJ...I think the reason to own a car is just a bit more compelling than the reason to own an AK47."
Marc LeVine
2:43 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Hi John! Yes, the fellow is totally responsible for pulling the trigger, after someone put a gun in his hands. There is nothing we can do on earth to totally eradicate anything. But, we can often control our problems by curbing that which we can - as much as humanly possible. The growing deficit in the US is mind-boggling. Do we throw up our hands and give up? No, we fix the problem incrementally - not overnight. Same with guns - limit their availability, control the sales/purchases better, make gun sellers more accountable to report suspicious activities. DO SOMETHING. No one needs to own a military weapon, outside of the military.
Neil Foster
10:30 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
John, the reason that Marc is focusing on the weapon, rather than a person is that he is wearing GUN GOGGLES, which blind him from seeing anything but a gun (which knows little, or nothing about, therefore fears).
John Jay
2:56 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Sorry Marc LeVine-- but we must disagree with the statement "No one needs to own a military weapon, outside of the military." Please explain to me how my legally owned and used firearms are a threat to you? Here's my status:
* My firearms are stored in a secure location (locked safe).
* I have received military, police and civilian training on their use.
* I am a good citizen and member of my community.
* I am of sound mental and physical condition.
You keep mentioning "AK-47". I highly doubt the killer had a real AK-47. A real AK is a true assault rifle -- which is capable of fully-automatic rate of fire (machine gun). Citizens who wish to acquire one or something similar have to be cleared by BATFE, FBI, state and local police AND pay a $200-plus tax for each one.
The ownership of machine guns have been tightly controlled since 1934. I am aware of only two instances since 1934 where a legally-owned machine gun was used in a crime.
Now...do you really think this 20-something punk had a Federal Firearms License (FFL) to own a real AK-47?
Neil Foster
9:20 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
The guy was previously hospitalized for depression, which made ownership of ANY firearm illegal... Not to mention New Jersey already has the most draconian gun-control laws in the US, you can't own, or buy an AK-47 in NJ. This indicates that the weapon was obtained illegally... In that case, it may have been fully automatic... Proof that gun bans only stop LAW ABIDING CITIZENS from owning guns. Criminals and lunatics get their guns on the black market.
So Much to Say
10:22 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
First and foremost my deepest sympathies to the victims of this horrible crime.
On the Firearms card questionaire you are specifically asked if you have ever been treated for menal disorders, or on marijuana, antidepression medications. Obviously if this MONSTER wasn't honest or he would never been able to get the card thus buy the firearms legally. The state doesn't check
As for gun control....No freaken way. Matter of fact laws should be changed to allow law abiding citizens to carry. I have several firearms, all legal as am I to own, buy and possess. As for AK-47, he didn't have one. That's a military issue gun and you can get models close but not an AK-47.
Lastly I'm glad he took his own life, at least we the taxpayer doesn't have to be stuck with the bill to house... him.
Bill
12:03 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
hey gun nut, excellent advice, you dumbass. The kid had an ak-47, and I know for a fact. you people are the worst
Stuart
3:55 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
John the seller of the full auto assault weapon has to purchase a $300 a year permit from the BATF&E and the buyer must also purchase a $300 a year permit from the BATG$E. The BATF&E is a Federal Agency responsible for the manufacture,importation and distibution of all firearms in the US.They also license and monitor all firearms dealers in the US. They also are at every gun show in the US(Bloomingidiotburg attacks gun shows as a source of illegal firearms).The Gun Control Act of 1934 made it illegal for civilians to possess full auto firearms( the Thompson Submachinegun in the hands of mobsters was why).
Neil Foster
7:44 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
No Bill, YOU are the worst. You are ignorant, arrogant, rude and obnoxious. You have serious anger issues and need professional help. I can see why you are so afraid of people owning guns, because you can not control your own temper and emotions you assume that everyone else is a lunatic just like you.
Lisa
3:00 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
I think the 24/7 media coverage (eg Aurora), etc., have a little to do with these guys deciding to "go out in a blaze of glory" and take innocents with them. They know they will be "famous," even if it after their own death; they know their acts will get the massive national coverage and I think that's what they want.
I think John Jay above has a keen point: how many of these shooters have been on some sort of pharmaceutical anti-depressant drug or cocktail of them?
John Jay
3:21 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Lisa -- I have researched this because I work in the industry. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are the number one common thread in mass shootings.
Some of the biggest names Fluoxetine (Prozac) and Fluvoxamine (Luvox) are well-documented to cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts/actions.
* Eric Harris was taking Luvox for a year while he hatched his plans for mass murder at Columbine.
* Jeff Wise was under the influence of Fluoxetine (Prozac) when he killed nine people and then committed suicide.
Just look up SSRIs and shootings in Google. It's horrifying!
Lisa
9:12 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Hi, John! Yes, I fully believe you are onto something so important here that these shooters have in common. I hope that there will soon be a scholarly article on this subject, profiling what these men have in common.
Moe dee
3:31 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Marc you are the voice of reason. Thank you.
JJ
5:01 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
John Jay you are the voice of reason
John Jay
6:05 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Thanks JJ.
Moe dee
7:52 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
you are probably the same person, John Jay --JJ? really!
Neil Foster
10:33 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
I agree with JJ... John Jay, is a voice of reason.
Food for Thought
6:32 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
I didn't read all of the comments on this page but I did read an article earlier that this (keep words to myself) was in the military but never saw combat. Did anyone see the same?
Neil Foster
10:35 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
You are correct. He also didn't finish half of a four-year enlistment... so he was kicked out of the military.
JJ
8:21 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
LOL! No different person....is it hard for you to believe that more than one person would have these views Moe?
Moe dee
9:39 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
No not hard to believe. I guess not there are a lot of "crazies" out there. Why any one not military or police would need a AK-47 here in NJ is beyond me. What to kill bear? maybe deer?
cnewman
9:09 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
This is another senseless tragedy for all involved - The two young people working at Pathmark could have been any of our kids, nieces or nephews. We need to do more for returning soldiers but the issue of GUN CONTROL - has got to be addressed. How many more incidents like this need to happen? Isn't this enough senseless loss and pain? A number of these killings appear to be by people with significant mental health problems - but having worked inpatient psych I can tell you it is not that easy to figure out when someone is going to go off and the laws about involuntary hospitalization are hard to meet. All I know is that this has to stop - maybe lawmakers and gun owners will only wake up if someone they love is lost in this craziness???
John Jay
9:34 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Holy smokes people -- it's the DRUGS not the guns. Stop prescribing Prozac and other SSRIs like candy and maybe we'll get a handle on this stuff!
cnewman
12:46 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
i don't know what planet you live on but i haven't heard that drugs causes people to shoot other people?
John Jay
9:44 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Moe dee -- I am not JJ. I don't know the person.
Moe dee
9:50 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
OK I got it. Don't know JJ. Did you go to Jon Jay? My grandson is looking to go there..
TP
9:48 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
How utterly tasteless and beneath contempt to blame antidepressants for the senseless murder by gun of two of our young people. Prozac without guns has no impact on anyone other than the individual taking it. Sounds to me like someone resents that a doctor has prescribed them something to control their delusions of grandeur.
John Jay
10:05 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Holy smokes TP, I can give you at least one dozen examples of mass killing and sucide -- and the common thread are the SSRIs.
Don't attack the messenger.
TP
10:30 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
I can give you hundreds of examples of mass killing and guns. So what? Perhaps medications played a role, but we don't know that. Your obsessive, speculative and endless commenting here seems designed to distract from the point of this article which is the murder by gun of two young people. Families and a community is shattered. This isn't about you and your issues.
Neil Foster
10:38 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
TP, these drugs even contain warnings about the possible negative effects on teenagers and young adults... One of these effects is suicidal thoughts.
TP
10:51 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
The point of this article is not the side effects of anti-depressants. The point is to inform the community of a tragedy. You have a gripe with anti-depressants which is obviously intense enough that you are spending an entire day posting about it and creating other identities to agree with things you've posted. Truly tasteless.
John Jay
10:07 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Sorry Moe dee -- I was a slacker back in the day and got to college the hard way. John Jay was out of my financial grasp and being a slacker didn't open the door for any academic perks.
I'm making up for it now in other ways. Trust me.
JJ
10:53 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
TP...correction, murder by sick individual of our young people.
Shep Proudfoot
11:29 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
What if the victims were armed? Would this have happened?
Stuart
4:12 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
All the mass shootings have taken place in gun free zones. VA Tech,Aurora, Columbine all were gun free zones in concealed carry States. There have been shootings in churches where an armed parishener(SP?) has stopped the damage.
aziancook
6:20 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Attention fellow American Patriots:
Chaos is being created all around America to pump fear in us. Why? The more scared we are, the more power we give the government. The more power the government gains, the less rights/privileges we have. That leads to an unlimited government. Being regulated by an unlimited government goes against what this country stands for. And to Bill, put the blame when it belongs; on people, not guns. If there are no guns, people will find another way to do harm. Also I believe that the government banning guns is going to be like them banning drugs. And we all can see how banning drugs is working out..
John Jay
7:25 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
I will bet the shooter was under the influence of SSRRI-based drugs. There are so many reports on this, your head will spin.
marylou
10:24 am on Monday, September 3, 2012
My guess is that he was off of his precribed medication(s).When depressed people seek treatment,they are prescibed anti-depressents and counseling to treat their illnesses.
John Jay
7:28 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
I will bet the shooter was under the influence of SSRRI-based drugs. There are so many reports on this, your head will spin.
The comments azian cook made are certainlyy worth researching!
Maria Vitucci
7:52 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
@ Danielle, first of all u don't have to live in a ghetto for something like this to happen. This can happen anywhere. Secondly, the gunman was never in combat. The world is a ghetto means there are too many of these shootings all around our country and so many innocent lives lost including Afghanistan. So many soldiers losing their lives.
Maria Vitucci
7:56 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
@ Danielle, I do agree with u about proper care when u return from war. I suggest u watch the movie Born on the Fourth of July. I rest my case.
John Jay
11:25 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Web site lisiting murders/suicides where SSRIs are the common denominator: http://ssristories.com/index.php
What School Shooting
Drug Prozac WITHDRAWAL
Date 2/15/2008
Where Illinois
Additional ** 6 Dead: 15 Wounded: Perpetrator Was in Withdrawal from Med & Acting Erratically
What School Shooting
Drug Prozac Antidepressant
Date 3/24/2005
Where Minnesota
Additional **10 Dead: 7 Wounded: Dosage Increased One Week before Rampage
What School Shooting
Drug Prozac Antidepressant
Date 3/24/2005
Where Minnesota
Additional **10 Dead: 7 Wounded: Dosage Increased One Week before Rampage
John Jay
11:27 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
What School Shooting
Drug Zoloft Antidepressant & ADHD Med
Date 7/11/2011
Where Alabama
Additional **14 Year Old Kills Fellow Middle School Student
What School Shooting
Drug Zoloft Antidepressant
Date 10/12/1995
Where South Carolina
Additional **15 Year Old Shoots Two Teachers, Killing One: Then Kills Himself
Does anyone see a pattern here???
Shep Proudfoot
3:51 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Bill you are in violation of several terms of use- which you agreed to.
Mary Mann
4:42 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012
I have deleted several comments by Bill attacking other commenters.
John Jay
4:22 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Hey Bill -- the way you are ranting, your neighbors may need a side arm to keep you at bay.
John Jay
4:29 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
How come the media isn't calling this a "hate crime"??
JJ
5:12 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Ahhh yes the "Hate crime" designation. Isn't any situation where someone kills another person on purpose a "Hate Crime"? You really have to hate someone to kill them, no?
John Jay
5:18 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Seriously, JJ -- the two innocent lives were taken by this monster -- and notice what ANGLE the media is taking: "former Marine" is the lead of the story -- nowhere will the term "hate crime" come into play.
This whole this is rotten from the top down -- from the savage that killed those poor kids to the media that is trying to spin that the weapon was the ONLY factor that lead to this terrible crime.
John Jay
8:55 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012
"Marc LeVine -- Again, you're harping on the type of weapon. The weapon this sick-o used has nothing to do with the intention and the act. The biggest mass murder before 9-11 involved a "Molotov Cocktail" thrown into a nightclub. 87 people died. Where was the national legislation, Frank Lautenberg beating his anti-2nd Amendment drums...and all of the other American-hating self-promoting soap box grand-standers?
The shooter was talking about killing co-workers a long time before the act. There was his intention. Do you think the people who read his FaceBook and other communicatons would have alerted police or the store? The people that knew this share a huge part of the blame here, folks.
-- and if the store and the police did not act upon, then we have some real problems with that, too.
This will all come out in the investigation, I am sure.
Regardless of friend or family: if someone is confiding to you they want to cause arbitrary harm to another human, don't sit back and do nothing. Get someone involved and get the person with the intent off the street and get them the help they need.
RE: "Marc LeVine 1:24 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012 JJ...I think the reason to own a car is just a bit more compelling than the reason to own an AK47."
Marc LeVine
11:32 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012
Nothing more than a simple hand gun, shot gun or hunting rifle is needed by any civilian in this country. Period.
John Jay
12:22 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
The Second Amendment isn't about hunting. It's about self-defense and the last resort against a tyrannical government. I suggest you read the book "That Every Man Ne Armed" by Constitutional scholar Steve Halbrook.
Marc LeVine
10:08 am on Monday, September 3, 2012
John Jay: Well, if we are ever going to have to fight our tyrannical government, we will need more than urban assualt "toys." We'll likely need anti-aircraft guns, hand-held rocket launchers and surface to air missiles. We'll get them from the defecting military element (or the American soldiers killed) and not from Walmart.
In the meantime - while we are waiting to find a reason to kill everyone in our nation's capital - we might as well keep putting "insufficient and ineffective battle weaponry" in people's hands to randomly kill innocents in movie theatres, supermarkets and schools. Right? Yes, let us all help our society further decay, all at the expense of preserving the right to shoot a 45 caliber gun or outdated AK47 at a heavily armed tank. We'd probably use IED's anyway. Is an IED arms? That's not made clear in the 2nd amendment, is it? Why, because we are applying 18th century thinking to 21st century problems. Have a registered hand gun, rifle or shot gun. After that, where would our founding fathers draw the line. Don't answer that, because you can't possibly know. The answer is with them in their graves. And - sorry - the context of the question is far beyond their thinking in the modern world.
Your (and other gun rights people) interpretation of the 2nd amendment by today's standards is ridiculous, impractical and dangerous to those who have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Proud Rationalist
12:15 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
So what some morons here are assuming is that anyone who was ever treated for depression/anxiety should be denied the right to own a firearm. I find that belief to be a disgusting display of discrimination, and a stigmatization of a mental health condition that has affected an astounding percentage of Americans, most of whom recover uneventfully and move on with their lives. None of them should ever be allowed to own a firearm? Ridiculous!
John Jay
12:23 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
The Second Amendment isn't about hunting. It's about self-defense and the last resort against a tyrannical government. I suggest you read the book "That Every Man Ne Armed" by Constitutional scholar Steve Halbrook.
Terry Bollea
12:44 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
If you cannot just live life like the rest of us and you need to be "treated" for depression/anxiety you should just jump off a bridge and stop wasting oxygen.
By the way there was an article about john jay in the post this morning.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/is_the_loneliest_number_6MNmyAvRMeGb16wH4UTx9L
cnewman
12:57 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
i find most of the above highlights the issue - people just yelling at each other and not trying to solve the problems- i think an intelligent and thought out process with legislators representing nj should be met with to discuss this culture of violence. people should contact legislators who can ban together and pass some meaningful legislation on the core issues contributing to this tragic cultural of violence. and while you are talking about it, some of the media - radio, tv, video games and movies also play a part - we seem to have moved to a society where it is every person for themselves and no sense of shared community and responsibility...
Eric
1:15 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
John Jay the common thread in all of these cases is a history of mental illness and/or poor anger management, not ssri meds. Trying to get a firearm in NJ is NOT easy at all. Claiming gun control will stop this from happening is like saying the war on drugs will stop you kid from trying pot. The stigma attached to seeking mental help is the problem and until people get over their ignorance and accept the fact that like any part of the body, so too the brain is often in need of treatment.
cnewman
3:10 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
good point about mental health care - However, even if someone recognizes they need help and wants help - which is often not the case, mental health services are not so easy to obtain and in some cases medication becomes the easy fix - cheaper and less time consuming then some of the other options that are needed - taking a pill doesn't solve the problem but insurance companies want to say that it does- look at your health insurance coverage and i guarantee there are differences in accessing your health insurance for a broken leg and needing ongoing mental health care - including inpatient to day hosptial to ongoing counseling...
as i mentioned this is a complex issue and hospitalization/commitment require lots of issues to resolve as well...
sometimes the family and community know the person is off, but yet nothing is done because of some denial, lack of mental health coverage and individual not willing to get help.
the kid at virginia tech had a psych history and yet he got a gun and went on a rampage- i am not sure what help he got ??? but i do know that it came out that other students and professors saw him as scary ...
who knows where to start? who knows a legislator that would take an interest in taking this on???
John Jay
3:16 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
Eric -- please click on my link that documents the SSRI-based anti-depressent medication and its connection to violent crime and suicide.
This is truly a painful subject for me because of people I know that have touched my life and sadly suffered from such a condition.
As for the gun control aspect -- I am 100% behind getting New Jersey changed to an open carry state. You can carry a side arm in 40 states right now.
There is overwhelming statistical evidence of citizens that carry side arms are MORE law-abiding and overall better rounded citizens.
Eric, I am 100% safety and training when it comes to firearms. I would not hesitate for a moment to come to the aid of a friend or family member who was suffering from some sort of mental health problem.
I would gladly, and safely store their firearms for them until they got better. We're all in this together, Eric. If you were my neighbor, I would come to your aid without hesitation.
Let me relate to you my earliest experience with the Second Amendment in the next post.
John Jay
3:28 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
My first and earliest lesson in the 2nd Amendment happened when I was a child. We were playing in a park with some of the older kids (ages 13-17).
A car stops in front of the park and all we can hear is a woman screaming -- a scream for someone to help. The man in the car pushed her out and was literally stomping on her chest and head. There is no doubt he was going to kill her if he wasn't stopped.
One of the boys (age 16) didn't hesitate (He would always go hunting with his dad). As the assault is still taking place, me and the other kids were screaming at the man to stop. We were little kids and couldn't much else.
Our 16-year-old hero ran to his house one door down and then came running out with a 12-guage Winchester shotgun and headed right for the attacker. The man saw what was about to happen and fled as 16-year-old racked one in the chamber and had it aimed at him.
Everyone knew the police in my neighborhood -- so when they came, they turned a blind eye when they learned what our 16-year-old hero did. We all saw the license plate for the car and the attacker was apprehended.
Bad guy: 0
Good guy with gun:1
The woman was beat up really bad, but she was alive.
cnewman
8:02 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
john jay - that is a dramatic story and i am sure one that made a major impression on you as a young child. However, what if the man had overpowered the 16 year old and taken the gun ? Or what if the man had a gun as well? you kids would have been in the line of fire - As a recent example, the innocent people in NYC were lucky when the guy who killed his former co-worker didn't fire back at the police - i heard (?) that his gun jammed and that was why it didn't become something worse. I think there are always situational events as to why someone feels having a gun would have been helpful, but i don't think they make up for some of the mass shootings we have seen. Do You? Really? what if several people in the Co. movie house had had guns - you want to say - well it would have stopped the killing, but i think more people would have been harmed... I am sorry but I think the laws on gun ownership need to be rethought.
Eric
3:30 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
Amen John Jay. I am a gun rights advocate and I am aware of the problems people have getting help, but sometimes people need meds but the trick is finding something that works for each individual. SSRI meds without any kind of talk therapy is a big waste of time and I wish people would realize that because often a mis-matched drug with no talk therapy can be a recipe for disaster. You need careful monitoring and frequent checks with someone specialized in that kind of medicine because they all have different effects and work better with one disorder or another. I know some people who say they had to try 3 different drugs over several months before they found the right one.
cnewman
8:18 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
Eric - you are a guns rights advocate and therefore the problem becomes the medication - i am anti -guns and also anti-ineffective mental health care - puttting someone on medication, figuringing out the right medication and dosage is tricky and requires time and money - close supervision of medication is costly - a majority of people who are on psychiatric meds get them from their local general practitioner. and most often there is no "therapy" involved..also most people in outpatient psych care see someone other then a psychiatrist and only the md when they need meds - it isn't like you might see in a movie with one on one with the md - some of this is based on convenience and a lot of it based on who pays for the care & as i said most insurance companies don't offer much in the way of mental health services -I am not sure what the new affordable health care act will offer (if it is implemented fully)
Larry Bone
6:12 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
How many school and workplace shooting homicides and suicides were there before SSRI Antidepressants were marketing broadly throughout the U.S. using doctors to prescribe them broadly using "doctored" clinical drug trial results to prove they are safe?
John Jay
9:27 am on Monday, September 3, 2012
Larry Bone -- you hit the nail on the head! How many scandals involving kick backs and falsified clinical/lab tests have happened? Great point. I bet if there was an audit done on the SSRIs we would find some pretty scary stuff.
Curious George
9:58 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
One of the main arguments made by the "radical right wing" 2nd amendment advocates is that we should all be armed (presumably with no restrictions) to protect us from our own government....I'm sure we all feel safer now that we've seen so many shootings in the last few months by civilians with their own weapons killing other civilians. We don't have to worry about the gov't killing us, we're doing it very well ourselves. What a sad country we live in where the politicians are so afraid of the NRA that they don't have the cajones to speak out against this carnage and finally pass some legislation which will actually take the guns out of the public's hands...Hunting is one thing but people aren't using 9mm, armor piercing hand guns to shoot deer or other wild life in the mountains....They are killing us and the gov't is too afraid to put a stop to it. We are the only country in the civilized world that allows this to happen and we consider ourselves the most civilized. George Orwell is alive and well and his upside down world is here and now.
scott show
10:48 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012
these ppl are just completely insane how bad is your life that u have to kill yourself and 2 Others i simply dont get it, im orignally from nj ocean county area but have friends in old bridge i moved to California and the other day i heard about 3 other marines killing some one. this time 2 females and 1 male, tourtured, raped, and strangled a women to death... how can ppl do such horrible things, and whats with the marines man the brain wash you,.
Terry Bollea
7:34 am on Monday, September 3, 2012
Bundy - what are you on.... god? santa? the toothfairy? give me a break. you need to take some of john jays SSRI-based anti-depressent medication and "fly" of the gwb after you are done selling shoes for the day.
John Jay
9:31 am on Monday, September 3, 2012
"Drew the Screwy one" -- You're the same poster with still ANOTHER different name? Don't you get tired of violating the policy here at the Patch? You get kicked out, only to return with another bogus name?
I'm having a great time watching you get bounced out of here. Get ready to get another email account so that you can reincarnate yourself.
By the way -- since when is obeying the law extreme? You are a very odd person.
Schu
11:16 am on Monday, September 3, 2012
Wow gun-control really works in the state.
TP
1:55 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012
What vile people are "neighbors' are that attempt to use the gunning down of kids to publicize their anti-abortion rights agenda. Please Middletown Patch consider limiting the number of comments per account on tragedies such as this.
faith
3:18 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012
TP I AGREE WITH U. SOME OF THESE COMMENTS R VERY SAD. WE LOST TWO YOUNG LIVES.
Mary Mann
4:47 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012
All commenters, please remember to stick to the issues and not resort to attacks or name-calling on other commenters. We've had to delete a few comments which violated our terms of use. Thanks very much for all thoughtful commentary.